2 electricians on site at any given time - your feedback

[graham_manchester]

Hired and trained a relatively new electrician. Getting along ok as far as competency goes so far. However, a few issues with him that I wanted to get your guys feedback/opinion on.

1. Doesn't like to go to any domestic site solo even for the simplest jobs. Has demanded he always has someone with him who can assist i.e. an improver type. His logic - electrical shock risk if he's alone and in case he cuts into a pipe etc., that kind of thing.

2. Not keen on driving so had to set up his sidekick on the insurance also.

3. Not keen on negotiating/communicating with customers. Bear in mind these are generally standard domestic jobs.

4. We sometimes have declined jobs because he also had a chacne to see them and wasn't keen on the customer/job is partially done i.e. subcontractor from a builder may not have finished off work for example.

5. Hates the idea of changing CU's unless a complete rewire is occurring because of trip risks despite knowing certain pre-tests can be done.

Do the above aspects seem practical on average as far as expectations from a domestic electrician go? I'm not so sure. We're a small business and everything counts.

Graham
(Go2Electrical, Manchester)

 

[telectrix]

does he want a plumber, plasterer, and a wood butcher to hold his hand as well? he's being a bit of an arse, IMHO.

 

[Pete999]

Hired and trained a relatively new electrician. Getting along ok as far as competency goes so far. However, a few issues with him that I wanted to get your guys feedback/opinion on.

1. Doesn't like to go to any domestic site solo even for the simplest jobs. Has demanded he always has someone with him who can assist i.e. an improver type. His logic - electrical shock risk if he's alone and in case he cuts into a pipe etc., that kind of thing.

2. Not keen on driving so had to set up his sidekick on the insurance also.

3. Not keen on negotiating/communicating with customers. Bear in mind these are generally standard domestic jobs.

4. We sometimes have declined jobs because he also had a chacne to see them and wasn't keen on the customer/job is partially done i.e. subcontractor from a builder may not have finished off work for example.

5. Hates the idea of changing CU's unless a complete rewire is occurring because of trip risks despite knowing certain pre-tests can be done.

Do the above aspects seem practical on average as far as expectations from a domestic electrician go? I'm not so sure. We're a small business and everything counts.

Graham
(Go2Electrical, Manchester)

No not really sounds like a bit of a liability if you ask me, but you are the Manager, your call.

 

[Strima]

Sounds like he has confidence issues and is looking for excuses to not do any work on his won in case he cocks up.

Tell him to grow a pair or find another employer.

 

[Pete999]

Hired and trained a relatively new electrician. Getting along ok as far as competency goes so far. However, a few issues with him that I wanted to get your guys feedback/opinion on.

1. Doesn't like to go to any domestic site solo even for the simplest jobs. Has demanded he always has someone with him who can assist i.e. an improver type. His logic - electrical shock risk if he's alone and in case he cuts into a pipe etc., that kind of thing.

2. Not keen on driving so had to set up his sidekick on the insurance also.

3. Not keen on negotiating/communicating with customers. Bear in mind these are generally standard domestic jobs.

4. We sometimes have declined jobs because he also had a chacne to see them and wasn't keen on the customer/job is partially done i.e. subcontractor from a builder may not have finished off work for example.

5. Hates the idea of changing CU's unless a complete rewire is occurring because of trip risks despite knowing certain pre-tests can be done.

Do the above aspects seem practical on average as far as expectations from a domestic electrician go? I'm not so sure. We're a small business and everything counts.

Graham
(Go2Electrical, Manchester)

What was he like at the interview, or not maybe.

 

[davesparks]

Number 1 has a grain of validity, lone working does carry a level of risk which can be mitigated by having another person there.

The other items in my opinion suggest that he shouldn't be doing domestic work.

 

[Zdb]

P45.

 

[Pete999]

Spanish Archer (Elbow)

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Sounds like a severe lacking in experience to me.

 

[Pete999]

Sounds like a severe lacking in experience to me.

I have worked on MOD sites Married Quarters, where you had to have someone with you, some of those Service Wives, if you get my drift. Used to leave a packet of OMO in the window "Old Man's Out" scary stuff, especially if you're a sensitive Guy like what I am.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

I have worked on MOD sites Married Quarters, where you had to have someone with you, some of those Service Wives, if you get my drift. Used to leave a packet of OMO in the window "Old Man's Out" scary stuff, especially if you're a sensitive Guy like what I am.

I used to PAT test three girls boarding schools during term time. I'd be wondering around un-assisted going through all their dorms while they were in lessons. All that was asked from the girls was that they put their electrical bits on their bed so I didn't have to rummage around their rooms too much..

Crazy thinking back..

 

[Pete999]

I used to PAT test three girls boarding schools during term time. I'd be wondering around un-assisted going through all their dorms while they were in lessons. All that was asked from the girls was that they put their electrical bits on their bed so I didn't have to rummage around their rooms too much..

Crazy thinking back..

Didn't know battery powered stuff required PATesting

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Didn't know battery powered stuff required PATesting

Well it is hand-held.

 

[SparkyChick]

Hi Graham and welcome to the forums.

@widdler has just beaten me to it, I think most of this may be down to confidence and a lack of experience.

How old is he? How long have you been training him? I assume he's been going to college? What quals does he have?

1. Flying solo... I'd like someone to help me on site all the time, for those awkward cable pulling moments, or for running around and clearing up after me, but it's just not practical on every single job because of the costs. If he's young and naive, this aspect of business may not occur to him. Sure there are risks, but by being careful, following the proper safety procedures etc. you can greatly reduce the risks of electric shock. Do I worry about it? Hell yeah, but I always take my time and minimise the time the installation is live during working (i.e. it's on only for the live testing). As for cutting through pipes, you just have to try and minimise the chances of doing it, maybe he needs a few pointers on how to do that?

2. Driving... pre-requisite. He may just be inexperienced and not be keen on the traffic. Having driven round Manchester on plenty of occasions, I can't say I blame him. But avoiding it isn't going to make it any better he needs to get out there and do it more. He may just be worried about pranging your van.

3. If he's young, then this is to be expected generally as he may simply be lacking confidence. You're obviously placing a certain amount of trust in him and he may not want to let you down and/or make your company look bad. If that's the case, good on him, far better that than some gobby git who makes promises your business then has to keep.

4. Generally I would say, you're the boss, give him a kick in the pants and tell him to get on with it, but there are definitely places I wouldn't work in based on their location and/or the people. Lets put it like this, if I ever end up seeing a used needle, I'm out the door.

5. So maybe he's not confident in his ability to establish whether it would be a trip risk and/or his ability to fault find if it does become an issue?

As has been said, these could all just be confidence/experience issues. You've obviously talked to him about some of this as you seem to have a reasonable picture of what he feels, but have you had a good chat with him about it with respect to the 'whys'? If not, that would be my next step.

 

[Pete999]

Well it is hand-held.

Normally hand held.

 

[SparkyChick]

Didn't know battery powered stuff required PATesting

Well it is hand-held.

As I know where this conversation is going... I'm going to add fuel....

Not all of them are battery powered and some of them most certainly wouldn't fit in your hand!

 

[Pete999]

As I know where this conversation is going... I'm going to add fuel....

Not all of them are battery powered and some of them most certainly wouldn't fit in your hand!

You would deffo need to PATest the mains powered type, I suppose they were double insulated.

 

[SparkyChick]

Not all of them are battery powered and some of them most certainly wouldn't fit in your hand!

Should qualify these statements with "so I've been told"

 

[Deleted member 9648]

^^^^.........Mains powered then??
Are we referring to one of those things that has a lot in common with Tofu ?
ie. a meat substitute.

 

[Pete999]

^^^^.........Mains powered then??
Are we referring to one of those things that has a lot in common with Tofu ?
ie. a meat substitute.

It's been kept reasonably clean so far using innuendos, now comes the nitty gritty responses, shame on you all. Just a point what size in Watts are we talking about ? would imagine the quality assurance was pretty strict, probably 1 in every 10.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Innuendo?....as the mexican said to the.......

 

[Pete999]

Innuendo?....as the mexican said to the.......

I knew it, I knew it turned to smut every time

 

[westward10]

How can discussing hair straighteners which I assume this is referring to get smutty.

 

[Pete999]

How can discussing hair straighteners which I assume this is referring to get smutty.

You must have lead a sheltered life Westy, when and where have you ever seen a battery powered hair straightener? although I suppose it could work on a Brazilian.

 

[LankyWill]

He needs a man up pill by the sounds of it, does his mum still rock him to sleep? Just give it to him in plain English and tell him to get a grip.

 

[westward10]

You must have lead a sheltered life Westy, when and where have you ever seen a battery powered hair straightener? although I suppose it could work on a Brazilian.

Gas powered ones.

 

[Pete999]

Gas powered ones.

Aint got Gas safe quals

 

[westward10]

Sounds like he has confidence problems and maybe issues interacting with new people, we had a similar problem with a lad who kept saying he needed more training but he was more competent than most of our team, perfectly happy and able when I was there but didn't like lone working.

 

[ED17]

We've had some sparks that just don't like working alone and don't understand that you can't charge the customer for one man to stand watching while the other changes a light switch.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

in terms of working alone in some domestic settings, it is something i have thought about. this day and age it is far too easy for somebody top make an allegation of a sinister kind and you are guilty until proven innocent.

If going to somebody's house in back of my mind i do think is the person a bit of a nutter, do i feel okay being there. this day and age its a sad fact, but you have to protect yourself.

You can't always avoid some situations but the guy may have a valid concern here. otherwise i do think hes got confidence issues. best thing to do is sit him down and be straight with your concerns. if he doesn't improve then i would send him packing.

 

[SparkyChick]

in terms of working alone in some domestic settings, it is something i have thought about. this day and age it is far too easy for somebody top make an allegation of a sinister kind and you are guilty until proven innocent.

If going to somebody's house in back of my mind i do think is the person a bit of a nutter, do i feel okay being there. this day and age its a sad fact, but you have to protect yourself.

You can't always avoid some situations but the guy may have a valid concern here. otherwise i do think hes got confidence issues. best thing to do is sit him down and be straight with your concerns. if he doesn't improve then i would send him packing.

This is one of the biggest concerns my parents had, more so because I'm a woman. If I think there is a risk, I keep some sharp and/or heavy implements to hand and always keep my keys and my phone handy. But thus far, most of my customers have been vulnerable themselves (elderly or single women for example - many of whom have expressed how pleased they are to have the choice of using a female tradesman for the same reasons I worry about this stuff). I have made the conscious decision to put my knife and a screwdriver in my pocket on one or two quote visits because I was unsure of what I might be walking into.

If he's really concerned about that side of it, the OP could get him a lone worker solution. I looked into them and only the cost stopped me going for it because my funds are limited. The one I found had a panic button, GPS tracking, two way radio coms so if you were unsure you could enable a listen in mode and also an accelerometer to detect falls. Very cool solution and it was only slightly bigger than a standard ID badge holder.

Also, maybe he should learn how to use his MFT as a weapon... IR at 500v across someone's chest isn't going to do them any favours. Whilst I don't like the possibility that it may result in their death, if it came down to a them or me situation, I think I would take my chances and stick it to them.

Sad that we have to think like this really, but in this day and age, you just never know.

 

[telectrix]

This is one of the biggest concerns my parents had, more so because I'm a woman. If I think there is a risk, I keep some sharp and/or heavy implements to hand and always keep my keys and my phone handy. But thus far, most of my customers have been vulnerable themselves (elderly or single women for example - many of whom have expressed how pleased they are to have the choice of using a female tradesman for the same reasons I worry about this stuff). I have made the conscious decision to put my knife and a screwdriver in my pocket on one or two quote visits because I was unsure of what I might be walking into.

If he's really concerned about that side of it, the OP could get him a lone worker solution. I looked into them and only the cost stopped me going for it because my funds are limited. The one I found had a panic button, GPS tracking, two way radio coms so if you were unsure you could enable a listen in mode and also an accelerometer to detect falls. Very cool solution and it was only slightly bigger than a standard ID badge holder.

Also, maybe he should learn how to use his MFT as a weapon... IR at 500v across someone's chest isn't going to do them any favours. Whilst I don't like the possibility that it may result in their death, if it came down to a them or me situation, I think I would take my chances and stick it to them.

Sad that we have to think like this really, but in this day and age, you just never know.

. IR at 500v across someone's chest isn't going to do them any favours.

too time consuming attaching the leads. use the MFT like a handbag, swing it by the strap and connect sharply with adversary's yed. ( charge for re-calibration, of course ).

 

[Wilko]

OP - I think this chap is way too demanding to work in your world. And I predict it will only get worse with more demands as time goes by. He perhaps needs to find employ in a large company with a tea room etc (no offence, I used to love it ).

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

. I looked into them and only the cost stopped me going for it because my funds are limited. The one I found had a panic button, GPS tracking, two way radio coms so if you were unsure you could enable a listen in mode and also an accelerometer to detect falls. Very cool solution and it was only slightly bigger than a standard ID badge holder.

Also, maybe he should learn how to use his MFT as a weapon... IR at 500v across someone's chest isn't going to do them any favours.

@SparkyChick have you had a look at the suzy lampugh trust website? they list a whole host of various solutions, you can get app based ones from a few pounds a month to dedicated devices for much more and everything in between. most will also give you free trials, I hope you never need one or have to use it but this day and age you can never say never.
Lone worker devices - https://www.suzylamplugh.org/Pages/Category/lone-worker-devices?

I have thought about a digital dictaphone on record in some properties as i have simply not felt fully okay in there as some people just give you a sixth sense of trouble.

As for using your MFT to basically tazer somebody with 500v then then maybe you should just get a cattle prod off ebay for 20 quid... im not sure of the legality(its openly on sale on ebay so not sure if its illegal?) as its not a actual tazer but maybe you can justify it as a trade tool to induce voltages on circuits? or maybe modify it so its made to do a legitimate business function? btw i do not advocate illegals acts in the pursuit of self defence ;-)
cattle prod | eBay - http://tinyurl.com/cattleprods

 

[Pete999]

@SparkyChick have you had a look at the suzy lampugh trust website? they list a whole host of various solutions, you can get app based ones from a few pounds a month to dedicated devices for much more and everything in between. most will also give you free trials, I hope you never need one or have to use it but this day and age you can never say never.
Lone worker devices - https://www.suzylamplugh.org/Pages/Category/lone-worker-devices?

I have thought about a digital dictaphone on record in some properties as i have simply not felt fully okay in there as some people just give you a sixth sense of trouble.

As for using your MFT to basically tazer somebody with 500v then then maybe you should just get a cattle prod off ebay for 20 quid... im not sure of the legality(its openly on sale on ebay so not sure if its illegal?) as its not a actual tazer but maybe you can justify it as a trade tool to induce voltages on circuits? or maybe modify it so its made to do a legitimate business function? btw i do not advocate illegals acts in the pursuit of self defence ;-)
cattle prod | eBay - http://tinyurl.com/cattleprods

Does that Dictaphone need PATesting?

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Does that Dictaphone need PATesting?

If i put it on vibrate mode to indicate low battery or recording in operation, i would assume it does as the 'devices' from the girls school did and they vibrated!

 

[telectrix]

Does that Dictaphone need PATesting?

get a grip pete. it's battery powered.

 

[Des 56]

You might be one hell of a nice guy,however,it can make for a less than forceful employer

The vast majority of bosses would not have come on a forum asking opinion,it would be "my way or no way"or words to that effect
You are holding his hand yet not happy doing so,there seems to be the need for change
Was he engaged with agreement between you both on the items you feel are restrictive

 

[The Ghost]

Of course you do not want to lose the investment of time taken to train such a person. The up side of it is that at least he wont wander off and become a competitor, just yet. Clearly you must play to his strengths and use him where he is most productive. Refusing to work at a task is however a sackable item, no two ways about it. Sounds like the tail wagging the dog which is unnaceptable. We have had to contend with people like this (not in an electrical capacity, but mental health care). They are on their own agenda and do what they see as fit rather than follow instructions. We tend to make clear they must carry out whatever they are asked to do, not including jumping off buildings etc. or anything that may cause harm them. Just what is reasonable within their job description. Where we can we send people on further training if there are areas they lack a skill in. It sounds like there are some areas of training that may be appropriate, such as customer skills/service that this person is lacking. You have to be so careful with employees as if you make life too difficult you may lose them and get sued for contructive dismissal. You may consider legal insurance if you have none already. We have had a couple of pro's trying to take us to the cleaners re suing for dismissal, however we are cleverer than that and forestalled/predicted where it was going. I don't know if I am overreading your situation or what the contractual position is just guessing.

 

[PEG]

Unfortunately,the length of that list of issues,indicates he has been adding to it,for a fair while,and you have allowed him.

For instance,the first time he mentioned not wanting to drive,would have been the ideal opportunity to tell him "It's not happening,pal".

He now has a large build up of "accepted practice" and will need either a full straightening out,or 2/3 hours of therapy

I grew up with gypsies,farmers and dealing men,so i cannot even touch on the standard methods of attitude correction...or the brevity with which,these adjustments follow, testing behaviour

 

[Pete999]

get a grip pete. it's battery powered.

Oh yes silly of me

 

[Stspark]

If not done so already, call a meeting with the employee. Explain the issues that are affecting your business. Listen to his response. Mutually plan some future targets. Honesty the best policy to keep long term stable employees.

 

[Squid]

Is he still on his notice period, do you have to follow a set procedure i.e. meeting, chance to rectify any issues ask him what his problems are give him a cuddle (have a witness in the room) and give him a chance to improve?

I have worked at places (non electrical) where if you ended up working in the depths of the basement there was a webcam linked and it was always checked just incase you tripped and had an accident so security could be called to offer assistance also worked for a Government Agency and if you went to a remote site/home visit and there was a lone female then you had to take someone with you so no false allegations could be made by either party.

 

[The Ghost]

wouldn't fit in your hand!

So errr...what, I mean, errrm what does it fit it then? Actually no, I don't want to know...I think

 

[Pete999]

So errr...what, I mean, errrm what does it fit it then? Actually no, I don't want to know...I think

Actually not fitting in your hand could be a good thing if you give it some thought, if stopped by the Police you couldn't be done for carrying a concealed weapon, oops, and end up giving Cops some cock and bull story.

 

[telectrix]

plumbers will be OK though. they generally carry ballcocks in their kit ( or is it in their brains).

 

[Pete999]

plumbers will be OK though. they generally carry ballcocks in their kit ( or is it in their brains).

I thought they usually had ballcocks in their pants

 

[Deleted member 93172]

We were all maybe a bit hesitant when we took our first steps alone in the big world of contracting, but you just got on with it and the self confidence grew with you. In other words you were slung off the deep end and had to learn pretty quick how to survive, doing things on your own single handed. We all wish for a perfect world ie only changing boards on newer installations, but life is not like that, I think if you keep giving in to his demands you life is going to get worse as the demands get more extreme, he needs to shape up or ship out.
Sorry the rant is now over, now back to PAT testing items

 

[Marti]

Gotta say, the guys I've been working with could not have been more encouraging and supportive but staff and work demands meant I was on-site alone after 10-12 weeks so you do your best not to fall in a hole, off a ladder or into the s**t. Managed everything except my two-way lighting was wrong (new builds, no power, no damage) I can empathise with a newbie unsure of himself but surely most major issues can be avoided with a phone call.

Well done for considering your guy rather than adopting the "grow a pair" mentality.

 

[Pete999]

What was he like at the interview, or not maybe.

Why was it a dumb answer/question love to know your reasoning.