Do you do jobs for cash, and then not declare it with the taxman? (voters in the poll are private!!!)

[Dan]

Do you do jobs for cash, and then not declare it with the taxman? (voters in the poll are private!!!)

Just wondering, as it's 2019, whether there are still guys doing jobs for cash.

As a web business, all my business is paid by BACS in full up front before anything goes ahead. Or Google, who pays me 2 months after I've earned it. On a rolling basis. So it is monthly kinda thing. So there's no dodging tax for me with it. And it has caught me out in the past. Ended up with a bill too big and went bump. Folded that company a while ago.

Wondering if this day in age, when so many invoicing systems are setup direct with accounts systems, that can be accessed by various departments of governments. Whether it's a case of never giving a price in writing via a system, and taking cash, or just all honest days work and paying tax all the way.

Now you don't need to reply to the thread. Just vote. And nobody will ever see who voted.

I'm just curious.

I'll do this on all my forums and see what the % is each year near Xmas. Perhaps check annually what's changing.

(Note that if anybody from the tax office ever asked for the data, we don't record who visits a thread, or who has voted. It just adds a digit to a database like an excel file, and doesn't have a name column in it. So they'd just get lots of 1's in lots of boxes and nothing else)

 

[buzzlightyear]

cash is king but the money goes to the counting house the queen. ,lol. has long I can have to buy a bag of smarties .

 

[FatAlan]

It’s Friday night Dan. I’ve been converting my hard earned cash into beer!

 

[buzzlightyear]

It’s Friday night Dan. I’ve been converting my hard earned tokens into beer and a curry .

lol. billion years .

 

[Strima]

Any form of payment, even a couple of cans of beer, must be declared to HMRC. Which I do everytime...

 

[buzzlightyear]

I have a neighbour when I did any jobs for him he would give me a bottle expensive wine and cash.

 

[Leesparkykent]

IMO anyone who thinks cash is king nowadays is mental. If you’re trying to build a business and get mortgages etc then it’s a pita. Don’t get me wrong it’s nice to have a bit on the hip. I know someone who tried paying for a holiday in the travel agents with 3k cash and they wouldn’t take it. I also tried paying £100 into someone’s nationwide account and they wouldn’t let me as it wasn’t my account....

 

[buzzlightyear]

yeah ,when a customer say cash ok or cheques ,what do you think it all bankable .and skimming off the top .

 

[supremetwo]

Through the 1950s and 60s, the top tax rate was around 90% and job bartering was common, e.g. I'll fix your electrics if you service my car.

 

[Deleted account]

Absolutely no need to do cash jobs. If you know what your doing on you tax return.

There are so many legal ways that you can use to bring your tax bill down that there is no point in risking breaking the law.

As an extra it is morally and legally wrong to do this.

The country as a whole needs taxation to run services.

All you cash in hand job peeps think about the next time you complain about hospital waiting lists or it takes 2 days for a police officer to arrive.

 

[Dustydazzler]

In the old days people liked cash because it meant not having to take multiple trips to the bank to deposit cheques.
Also builders would sometimes do ‘some cash’ for customers to negate some of the vodka and tonic on big jobs.
That said I still know some one man bands not just sparks but gardeners and painters who will only accept cash, can’t think why.....

 

[Zerax]

Absolutely no need to do cash jobs. If you know what your doing on you tax return.

There are so many legal ways that you can use to bring your tax bill down that there is no point in risking breaking the law.

As an extra it is morally and legally wrong to do this.

The country as a whole needs taxation to run services.

All you cash in hand job peeps think about the next time you complain about hospital waiting lists or it takes 2 days for a police officer to arrive.

Hang on there Pete... All taxes are vile and disgusting ! but I agree we do need them to run essential services for the country. And yes, tax evasion is illegal, but avoidance is just shrewd... after all, it was the monks who invented it !

As to the issue of hospital waiting lists though... that has very little to do with money... it's far more to do with chaotic mismanagement and institutionalised employees.

And the none arrival of a Police Officer is mainly due to their new role to 'maintain the safety of the general public'. Their traditional role of 'upholding the law' went about 20 years ago !

 

[Dan]

(Note this is a public thread! - Regardless of the private votes lol!)

It only takes a customer to get snotty with you in a months time because they didn't agree with you when you say they broke something that they're claiming you broke, for them to report it.

I think you're treading on thin ice moving cash around.

May as well deal drugs in the eyes of the taxman lol Police don't mind it. I've known police pay jobs in cash.

 

[buzzlightyear]

any way my hands are clean when I'm dipping in to other people pockets, lol.

 

[Dan]

Hang on there Pete... All taxes are vile and disgusting ! but I agree we do need them to run essential services for the country. And yes, tax evasion is illegal, but avoidance is just shrewd... after all, it was the monks who invented it !

As to the issue of hospital waiting lists though... that has very little to do with money... it's far more to do with chaotic mismanagement and institutionalised employees.

And the none arrival of a Police Officer is mainly due to their new role to 'maintain the safety of the general public'. Their traditional role of 'upholding the law' went about 20 years ago !

Be careful with your wording.
If you're drinking too, be extra careful for me.

Keep the thread civil please.

 

[Zerax]

In the old days people liked cash because it meant not having to take multiple trips to the bank to deposit cheques.
Also builders would sometimes do ‘some cash’ for customers to negate some of the vodka and tonic on big jobs.
That said I still know some one man bands not just sparks but gardeners and painters who will only accept cash, can’t think why.....

I think it's still the way in Greece to have half/half arrangement on most things... so if you're buying a house for say €300k... you pay €150k in cash and the 'official' price is only €150k

 

[buzzlightyear]

any body rang john major about cash for questions yet .

 

[Leesparkykent]

buzzlightyear stop quoting posts and then changing them as it just drags the thread down and confuses things when people are scrolling through....plus it’s Gettin on my nerves keep editing or deleting them.

 

[Dan]

I think it's still the way in Greece to have half/half arrangement on most things... so if you're buying a house for say €300k... you pay €150k in cash and the 'official' price is only €150k

Italy did that under their last dodgy bloke known for his girls and parties.

ALL invoices now have to be sent to the tax man, they send it to the customer, the customer pays the tax man, the tax man gives you your share.

So it wont work forever.

 

[Zerax]

Italy did that under their last dodgy bloke known for his girls and parties.

ALL invoices now have to be sent to the tax man, they send it to the customer, the customer pays the tax man, the tax man gives you your share.

So it wont work forever.

But the tax man will only ever see the €150k figure... the other half is cash and never declared etc..

 

[buzzlightyear]

Spain ,Greece Italy are the worst country's in the world for tax avoidance ,never mind the backwards country's.

 

[telectrix]

i get cash for a job. buy beer... 60% tax: buy smokes... 85% tax: buy diesel .... 80% tax...then VAT on top of the tax. there's nothing left.

 

[Dan]

But the tax man will only ever see the €150k figure... the other half is cash and never declared etc..

I don't know a single person with 150k in cash

It's drawn out of a bank surely.

It comes back around doing that because checkout their bailouts they've had. It'll cost them when they can't draw cash out or put it in anywhere without a passport.

Got to spend it in fivers at the shops then and fuel will be more paid in tax than it was worth ?

 

[Zerax]

I don't know a single person with 150k in cash

It's drawn out of a bank surely.

It comes back around doing that because checkout their bailouts they've had. It'll cost them when they can't draw cash out or put it in anywhere without a passport.

Got to spend it in fivers at the shops then and fuel will be more paid in tax than it was worth ?

Yeah... but this is Greece... it's a different way of life. I heard that someone had a safe/secure box/whatever underneath his swimming pool ! He worked out it was about the last place anyone would look !

 

[Dan]

Yeah... but this is Greece... it's a different way of life. I heard that someone had a safe/secure box/whatever underneath his swimming pool ! He worked out it was about the last place anyone would look !

Wow that's one way to stash it.

Worth sticking it into some currency or property though. It would increase in value then and not decrease.

If I hide 100 now. In 10 years I can buy less with it.

Doesn't make sense to me.

Large sums of money is how money is made easily. I can see why a small business can fiddle books and pay in cash at suppliers for stock etc.

But big bucks, sod that. That'd go straight into Forex for me and alternate it over the opening times of currency that happen a few times a day.

 

[2391bob]

It’s Friday night Dan. I’ve been converting my hard earned cash into beer!

I must be the AntiChrist......I turn all my beer into water !!!

 

[Strima]

Tax avoidance and dodging is bollox. If I threw a brick at your head would you dodge it or avoid it?

As for cash jobs, ok the tax man/woman/frying pan don’t get their cut but at least the vast majority spend that cash with local businesses who do pay tax unlike Amazon etc.

 

[Dan]

Not sure what the brick reference is all about lol.

The companies who dodge and avoid tax simply opt for the lowest outgoings. Amazon apple and Google all making well more than a lot of countries while GDP.

So they use their low taxes for their businesses. They're bigger than countries now. Countries need to be stronger on them but then the tax payer ends up going elsewhere for their stuff too then.

I guess.

I don't agree with it. It should be paid in the country the product is bought. End of. Not related to where the business operates. IMO.

I'm hoping the yes vote in our poll really is occasionally.

Else your statement above is untrue mate. Lol

 

[Zerax]

Not sure what the brick reference is all about lol.

The companies who dodge and avoid tax simply opt for the lowest outgoings. Amazon apple and Google all making well more than a lot of countries while GDP.

So they use their low taxes for their businesses. They're bigger than countries now. Countries need to be stronger on them but then the tax payer ends up going elsewhere for their stuff too then.

I guess.

I don't agree with it. It should be paid in the country the product is bought. End of. Not related to where the business operates. IMO.

I'm hoping the yes vote in our poll really is occasionally.

Else your statement above is untrue mate. Lol

The problem though Dan... is that it's tax on profits... and who's to say which country you made the profit in ? You can easily determine the value of Sales, but profit is a tricky one. The trick often used is to charge a 'management charge' from one entity to another... thus moving profit. The only real solution is to have a global arrangement that says that whatever profit you make, it will be 'deemed' to have been made in the country where the sales were... But Ireland would never agree to that ! Neither would Luxembourg !

 

[Deleted account]

Hang on there Pete... All taxes are vile and disgusting ! but I agree we do need them to run essential services for the country. And yes, tax evasion is illegal, but avoidance is just shrewd... after all, it was the monks who invented it !

As to the issue of hospital waiting lists though... that has very little to do with money... it's far more to do with chaotic mismanagement and institutionalised employees.

And the none arrival of a Police Officer is mainly due to their new role to 'maintain the safety of the general public'. Their traditional role of 'upholding the law' went about 20 years ago !

Absolutely agree money( our money ) is waisted by government, but I feel it is a poor argument to justify not paying your due taxes.

Governments from all sides will always waste money on weird schemes and mismanaging. It’s a fact and will never change.

The problem is they don’t believe it is wasted because they are spending it on what we the people want. Not the majority of people, but the loud minority.

I know my argument will be unpopular as no one likes giving money to the taxman, but it is needed even if some of it is wasted due to what we the people want.

 

[Dan]

I fully understand how it works. My payments from Google for 13 years have been from America, Ireland and the UK.

What I'm saying is the buyer buys it here. They have to have a company here paying the tax on the goods. And not allowed them to charge a fee from islands for 'branding charge' from an arm that doesn't sell the product to the customer.

Those

 

[PEG]

Cash is still king...more is better than less,especially if it's in your pocket

I have tried rolling around,naked,on a bed strewn with BACS receipts......it's not the same...

 

[telectrix]

cash jobs might avoid paying a bit of tax, but then it makes up for the receipts you forget to enter and the nasty printed fuel receipts that have completely faded so you don't know what for and for how much, thus being unable to claim for.

 

[Dustydazzler]

We used to holiday every year in Greece when we were teenagers , and I remember back then most shops , restaurants , bars would only accept cash. No cards allowed.
I wonder why...It was something quite nice and simplicity about it,
In fact if your bill came to say 5400 drachmas they would you just round it down to a nice crisp 5000

 

[Zerax]

Absolutely agree money( our money ) is waisted by government, but I feel it is a poor argument to justify not paying your due taxes.

Governments from all sides will always waste money on weird schemes and mismanaging. It’s a fact and will never change.

The problem is they don’t believe it is wasted because they are spending it on what we the people want. Not the majority of people, but the loud minority.

I know my argument will be unpopular as no one likes giving money to the taxman, but it is needed even if some of it is wasted due to what we the people want.

Pete... I have never suggested that anyone should not pay their due taxes... that's called "tax evasion" and is illegal.
Government do not believe money is wasted for two reasons; i) That's the way it's always been ii) It's very easy to measure money... We often hear that "We've increased spending on education by 10%", but never hear that 1,000 more school leavers can read and write properly.

But probably the craziest way ever to give away our hard earned money is the law that says we must spend 0.7% of our GNI on Overseas Development (that's about 14 BILLION a year) ... It has nothing to do with actually benefitting or helping anyone !! As a consequence, vast amounts of this money never ever reach the people that need it.

 

[FatAlan]

Look at all the cash only takeaways, car washes and nail bars. No receipts issued. Great money laundering mechanisms me thinks. Always wondered why HMRC never seem to pay them much interest. Plod spent the last few years waving the flag about modern slavery and in my view one of the easiest ways to crack down on the offending businesses is to hit them financially. But no they insist on raiding them and wonder why everyone runs away, even the victims!

 

[GBDamo]

Absolutely no need to do cash jobs. If you know what your doing on you tax return.

There are so many legal ways that you can use to bring your tax bill down that there is no point in risking breaking the law.

As an extra it is morally and legally wrong to do this.

The country as a whole needs taxation to run services.

All you cash in hand job peeps think about the next time you complain about hospital waiting lists or it takes 2 days for a police officer to arrive.

If only it were so simple.

Your tax £ will be swallowed in an orgy of public sector largesse, foreign aid, failed IT systems, Toffs trains sets, diversity outreach officers, trans toilets and literally millions more schemes and scams to funnel tax into the grubby hands of the of a select few.

It is every mans duty to pay as little tax as morally acceptable to him.

I don't do cash in hand though cos I'm a hypocritical -----.

 

[Deleted account]

If only it were so simple.

Your tax £ will be swallowed in an orgy of public sector largesse, foreign aid, failed IT systems, Toffs trains sets, diversity outreach officers, trans toilets and literally millions more schemes and scams to funnel tax into the grubby hands of the of a select few.

It is every mans duty to pay as little tax as morally acceptable to him.

I don't do cash in hand though cos I'm a hypocritical -----.

I don’t know whether to agree or disagree ,like or ,dislike.

I like you don’t do cash in hand, but not sure on the little tax as morally acceptable.

If you’d said legally and morally you have an agree or like.

Just a quick add ( political correctness) “every man and woman’s duty”.

(Even more political correctness) “man woman or other”

Sorry went off topic.

I’ve decided to plump for wow!

 

[JK-Electrical]

Yeah... but this is Greece... it's a different way of life. I heard that someone had a safe/secure box/whatever underneath his swimming pool ! He worked out it was about the last place anyone would look !

Is this what accountants refer to as liquid assets?

Should this tax-evasion method ever be discovered by the Greek tax authorities, I'm sure they'll pool their resources, dive in to investigate, and surface with a watertight case.

 

[MartinN]

If you watch Watchdog on the BBC on a regular basis you always see people being ripped off on a regular basis. What was it last week, victims being charged over £6K for jobs which should cost a couple of hundred quid. Looks like they can do 2 jobs a day at least probably 6 days a week. That's £72K a week or £3.5 million a year, allowing time off for hols and drinking beer. Do you recon these people with integrity pay the tax man anything? These programs will never run out of these examples. An endless supply.

I never understand why these programs don't have the police with them and arrest immediately, freeze all bank accounts, prosecute and seize all assets under proceeds of crime act. Make them homeless. Use some of their money to lock them up and fund more investigative journalism. That would make a cracking program.

Most of the focus is always focuses on the little people who charge bugger all and make little money.

I'll give an example. Many many years ago my wife engaged the services of a small cleaning company all above board, taxes paid and daughter a part time employee with payslip. The mother decided to retire and the business was wound up. The daughter decided to keep on with 6 clients, we were one. She was on benefits (3 children, 2 fathers who had both cleared off). We paid cash even though we knew she was on benefits. I had a discussion with here on declaring it to the taxman and the benefits agency and offered help in that respect regarding accounts. The reality was it would be stupid to do so. She'd be immediately frozen out of any benefits, being self employed, even though when I looked at her financials regarding the business she was making a loss, technically. She didn't have the maths ability to do her own accounts or the financial ability to pay for an accountant. The vehicle she needed to get to her jobs triggered a loss but nether the less a "benefit in kind" for day to day life. With it she could take her children out to places. Help enrich their lives. Did she need a vehicle? No. The children went to the school 50 yards away on her road and there was an Aldi at the bottom of her road. She only required a vehicle for work.

She clearly wanted to improve her lot in life and it would also show a good work ethic to her children. One day she stopped coming. We think someone dobbed her in. We never heard from her again.

What did society benefit from this. Children learning that if you are at the bottom of the heap its pointless working as you'll just get kicked back. This is a British self fulfilling disease. There is no political desire to fix this.

Now there are negatives. What you find is cash jobs from some tradesmen are so cheap it depresses what everyone else can charge. That's a major problem for tradesmen across all trades. BUT who am I to criticise when instead of buying clothes made in the UK where there'd be maternity pay, paternity pay, sick pay, bank holiday pay, 6 weeks holiday pay, state pension, free health care, fee schooling etc I can buy much cheaper from a country where they get non of that and their working week is twice as long.

Unless you get ruthless reform starting at the top. i.e. those types that appear on Watchdog type programs, cash jobs will always be a reality.

I have met many people who have a full time job and do foreigners on the side. Do they fill out self assessments every year? I suspect not.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The 'gig' economy is booming where people have a 9-4 day job but do lots of 'paid' work on the side every weekend...I will bet my lunch money nobody declares this work to the HMRC

In fairness most people I know who do 'side work' do so out of necessity to make ends meet , and if they had to pay tax on it then it just wouldn't be worth the hassle.
About 15 years ago the HMRC were going to crack down on the gig cash economy but don't think they ever bothered

 

[telectrix]

whole system is faulty. a single mother who does not work, gets benefits, and can sit on her arse all day watching sky on the 55" flat screen TV, is entitled to free nursery places for under school age kids. my ladd works all hours to try and make ends meet, but as he's working nursery place is £600/month. that's half his wages for 7 days work/week gone.

 

[JK-Electrical]

The 'gig' economy is booming where people have a 9-4 day job but do lots of 'paid' work on the side every weekend...I will bet my lunch money nobody declares this work to the HMRC

In fairness most people I know who do 'side work' do so out of necessity to make ends meet , and if they had to pay tax on it then it just wouldn't be worth the hassle.
About 15 years ago the HMRC were going to crack down on the gig cash economy but don't think they ever bothered

If HMRC were serious about cracking down on the 'gig economy', then they ought to be taking a very close look at the likes of Rated People and MyBuilder where people who have day jobs are openly advertising their electrical services on weekends and weekdays after 4:30 pm. I'm sure there'll be other trades the length and breadth of the country doing exactly the same.

Then there are those who work for themselves, but aren't registered with HMRC as being self-employed. One reason that these guys can continually undercut bona fide contractors is because they don't pay their taxes.

 

[GMES]

I cant get away with cash jobs, everything is purchase orders and Bacs payments, I've got staff, payroll, pensions, van finance etc.
Also as others have said you are so limited to what you can do with it.
True story.... a mate of mine , one man band got a few grand cash so decided to give it the wife to use for shopping , unfortunately about 6 months later got investigated, while looking through his bank account they notice that up until the cash fiddle he had spent about 200.00 a week at Tesco on the family shopping with his bank card then suddenly it stopped. The Tax man pointed out that according to his statement the entire family must not have eaten for about 5 months lol.
They are not stupid people and will always catch a con.
Finally, I may be on my own with this mentality but if you're getting a large tax bill every year which I do!!! Then you're clearly earning the money and doing things right .

 

[Dustydazzler]

I read somewhere that the likes of Google and Amazon pay less than 1p in the pound in UK tax ,This is the true crime

But poor old Dave down the local boozer who took some cash for a re-wire is more likely to get prosecuted

Strange times

 

[Deleted account]

I read somewhere that the likes of Google and Amazon pay less than 1p in the pound in UK tax ,This is the true crime

But poor old Dave down the local boozer who took some cash for a re-wire is more likely to get prosecuted

Strange times

True, but 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

Google is morally wrong but nothing illlegal.

Dave down the local boozer was wrong and illegal.

No sympathy for Dave as he is the guy who always undercuts me on rewires as he has no insurance registaration or even qualifications.
We all know Dave.

 

[telectrix]

look at it another way. say, for arguments sake, i earn £600 in a week, all cash. out of that goes £60 on diesel ( £50 tax), £70 smokes ( £60 tax), £50 beer ( £35 tax). bills and shopping £200 ( £40 tax). that's £185 tax. and y'all wonder why i balk at paying income tax .in any case, now I'm semi-retired, i don't earn enough to break the threshold.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Everyone should just put £12,000 ‘through the books’ and the rest non declared cash...

 

[Zerax]

It's worth noting too that... The tax you pay under Sched E (Employed) is significantly higher than under Sched D (Self Employed)... so all you self employed guys should think yourselves VERY lucky. That may not continue indefinitely...

 

[Deleted account]

The percentages are 56% do on occasion take cash in hand as I type this.

I have to admit I am pleasantly surprised by that, I thought it would be 80-90%.

I bet the plumbers forum has a 90-95%.

It would be interesting to see the final result.