I Think I May Have Found Free Renewable Energy

[ajay123]

Hi guys, so a 180 watt motor is powerful enough to spin a 3000 watt generator, meaning that the generator makes enough power to power the motor, and yea I know if you include all the energy losses such as losses from heat, mechanical movement and even sound, then the generator will end up making for example 2500 watt or slightly less and that's still enough power to power the motor, so ovisously the motor will need to be connected to the mains power supply to begin with but once the generator has got up to full speed it can be switched to the generator power, I thought that can anyone tell me why know one has done this yet or tell me if this system would work or not, this system seems over 100 percent efficient. Thank you.

 

[Darkwood]

Hi ajay123..

The reason no one hasn't achieved this yet is that its a pipe dream and is impossible, it breaks the fundemental laws of physics, you cannot create more energy than you put in and quite rightly as you say you have to consider all the losses, using a small motor to spin a large one isn't too hard if you size it correcly but the fact it may be spinning even at plated speed means nothing as it is unloaded, try loading up the generator up and you'll probably see the smaller motor go into overload and trip its protection. I don't know how you are measuring the output of the generator here but you need to remember it has high inertia and for a short brief moment you can measure these outputs but with load these reading would collapsed very quickly.

 

[Rpa07]

Back to the drawing board ajay - but hey, it's not even 10 o'clock yet - there's still time in the day for another go. If we believe in it, we'll back it and 'you'll be rich beyond you wildest dreams' or assassinated by the big oil companies! Have a good day. Oh and Darkwood - how could you shoot a mans dreams down before breakfast? - just cruel!

 

[ajay123]

Thank you darkwood, but what if you had a battery connected to the motor and then the generator charged the battery up at the same time

 

[ajay123]

Thank you Rpa07 for the support

 

[Darkwood]

I've heard of people putting thousands of pounds into trying to develope what we would call perpetual machines, now do not get me wrong here, some of these are initially not stupid people and its easy to get lost in the dream of inventing such a device if you jump around the internet and believe the claims made but usually what is a common trait here is a lack of knowledge in physics and I would ask anyone interested in this subject to read up on the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics both of which would be violated if you somehow made such a magical device, now the laws we follow to understand the universe do have some flaws when we try to explain some quantum interations but that is probably do to the fact we don't fully understand the quantum world yet and how our applied laws work in it, on the whole in the macro world they have proved over and over again to be correct and we design most of our technology around these laws with success so the idea that someone could invent a device that creates more energy that it is given is fantasy IMHO and any reputable scientist out there will back me up on that.

 

[ajay123]

I still don't understand that even with these energy losses, the generator is still making enough power to supply the motor though.

 

[Darkwood]

Thank you darkwood, but what if you had a battery connected to the motor and then the generator charged the battery up at the same time

You're looking at things the wrong way, a battery is a load and whether your trying to boil a 3kw kettle or charge a battery the answer is the same, your small powered motor is doing the work albeit through an extended system which will incur more losses than running direct of the initial power supply you have plugged your motor into.

Consider a moped coupled to the back of a car, with a little push its easy to use the bike to push the car along a road on the flat, now consider that your road start to incline, the inertia of the car would take it a little way but once this is lost the moped would see the incline and the weight of the car as too great and could no longer push the vehicle any further, this is a simlar set up to what you mentioned to show what I mean about loading the generator up, or hitting an incline as in the car/moped analogy. Now start the Generator up on its own power source or the car and the load/hill can be maintained.

 

[ajay123]

You're looking at things the wrong way, a battery is a load and whether your trying to boil a 3kw kettle or charge a battery the answer is the same, your small powered motor is doing the work albeit through an extended system which will incur more losses than running direct of the initial power supply you have plugged your motor into.

Consider a moped coupled to the back of a car, with a little push its easy to use the bike to push the car along a road on the flat, now consider that your road start to incline, the inertia of the car would take it a little way but once this is lost the moped would see the incline and the weight of the car as too great and could no longer push the vehicle any further, this is a simlar set up to what you mentioned to show what I mean about loading the generator up, or hitting an incline as in the car/moped analogy. Now start the Generator up on its own power source or the car and the load/hill can be maintained.

Ahh right I understand now, however I don't want to seem too annoying by asking too many questions but let's say if you connect a step up transformer to the generator so that it creates 230 volts then couldn't you use that as a mains supply for the motor again?

 

[Wilko]

Hi - unfortunately there is no lossless transformer, so you will always get out a little less than you put in. The energy doesn't disappear, but it is lost as heat. Cheers, David.

 

[ajay123]

Hi - unfortunately there is no lossless transformer, so you will always get out a little less than you put in. The energy doesn't disappear, but it is lost as heat. Cheers, David.

Hi, thank you for your reply but yea I know all transformers will have losses from heat but voltage created from a 230 volt transformer with the heat loss included, will produce let's say 220 volts, and a motor can still work on a 220 volt supple even tho it's rated to 230v to 250v

 

[Darkwood]

Ahh right I understand now, however I don't want to seem too annoying by asking too many questions but let's say if you connect a step up transformer to the generator so that it creates 230 volts then couldn't you use that as a mains supply for the motor again?

No because you ignoring the losses, Ive just explained you cannot generate more energy than you put in and given what I believe is a nice analogy to explain it, it is simple to move a large object with a small motor although it may take some time, once the large object is moving it has alot of potential energy and all the small motor in you case is doing is keeping it going by topping it up against the friction forces it encounters, the moment you add a load which works against the saved up potential energy of the large object then it is quickly drained and the small motor will be load saturated trying to maintain it, in the idea of a generator making an output to run the motor that turns it will hit the same brick wall where the inertia (potential energy) will be quickly used up in a very short time and thus the available power would drop on the output and since your tring to run the motor of this then you are trapped in a vicious circle of decline as it cannot maintain the generator which then outputs less power which power the motor trying to maintain the generators output. On graph paper the power output would start to fall as the stored potential energy is used up then it would crash down in a near vertical line until it all stops.

 

[Darkwood]

Hi, thank you for your reply but yea I know all transformers will have losses from heat but voltage created from a 230 volt transformer with the heat loss included, will produce let's say 220 volts, and a motor can still work on a 220 volt supple even tho it's rated to 230v to 250v

Your concept of the voltage here is misleading you, just because you the correct voltage does not mean you have enough available power behind it to do what you need it to do, voltage is only the potential difference between two points, its the current you need to maintain at the required voltage to keep your load working.

 

[ajay123]

No because you ignoring the losses, Ive just explained you cannot generate more energy than you put in and given what I believe is a nice analogy to explain it, it is simple to move a large object with a small motor although it may take some time, once the large object is moving it has alot of potential energy and all the small motor in you case is doing is keeping it going by topping it up against the friction forces it encounters, the moment you add a load which works against the saved up potential energy of the large object then it is quickly drained and the small motor will be load saturated trying to maintain it, in the idea of a generator making an output to run the motor that turns it will hit the same brick wall where the inertia (potential energy) will be quickly used up in a very short time and thus the available power would drop on the output and since your tring to run the motor of this then you are trapped in a vicious circle of decline as it cannot maintain the generator which then outputs less power which power the motor trying to maintain the generators output. On graph paper the power output would start to fall as the stored potential energy is used up then it would crash down in a near vertical line until it all stops.

Ok thank you for that useful information I really appreciate it, you seem to know what you are taking about and you seem to have a wide vocabulary, may I ask what is your job if you don't mind telling

 

[Wilko]

Hi Ajay, yes you are right, but voltage is only the potential to do work and needs current flow to produce power (P=V.I). The current flow is reduced by the voltage losses and impedances in the cct, so always less power out than went in (lost as heat somewhere). Some of this is fixed by operating the cct at -273c temp, but creating that takes energy too. Cheers, David.

 

[ajay123]

Hi Ajay, yes you are right, but voltage is only the potential to do work and needs current flow to produce power (P=V.I). The current flow is reduced by the voltage losses and impedances in the cct, so always less power out than went in (lost as heat somewhere). Some of this is fixed by operating the cct at -273c temp, but creating that takes energy too. Cheers, David.

Hi David, but how come I can get 100 amps of current from the mains supply of a domestic premises which also operates at 230 volts, also there could be 5 houses connected to the same phase as your house and they will all still have 100 amps available to them.

 

[Darkwood]

Ok thank you for that useful information I really appreciate it, you seem to know what you are taking about and you seem to have a wide vocabulary, may I ask what is your job if you don't mind telling

Electrical Engineer with a home interest in Quantum Physics, I watch the same vid's on youtube that you have probably seen albeit for my own amusement in most cases, a high proportion of those vids are a first stage attempt to get money out of you and they will try every trick on the book to look realistic while in most cases they have fitted some button batteries inside the devices themselves so it appears they are really maintaining spin etc
I enjoy them because its like a puzzle to see how they are duping the viewer, they are nothing more then electrical magicians showing amazing wonders on the surface but all done with underlying tricks.

Viewer beware in most cases that they don't get pulled into the scam.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - easy one, it's the BFC effect - big friendly cables . I've forgotten the proper number now, but I'm going to say that for every kW you use at home 2kW is produced at the power station, ie half the energy is lost as heat on its way to you in cables and transformers etc. Also, the supply voltage at your house will drop as you increase the current draw. Hopefully not enough that you will notice flickering lights etc but it can be readily seen with test instruments. This is the end result of losses in transmission that means we can never get more useable energy out than is put in. Hope that helps. Cheers, David.

 

[Dan]

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

 

[Darkwood]

You're down as a Trainee @ajay123, if your on an active course or just about to start one then I recommend you apply for our Trainee section, if this is the case just browse the forum catagories and click on the and follow the instructions regarding applying for access.

 

[Dan]

 

[ajay123]

Electrical Engineer with a home interest in Quantum Physics, I watch the same vid's on youtube that you have probably seen albeit for my own amusement in most cases, a high proportion of those vids are a first stage attempt to get money out of you and they will try every trick on the book to look realistic while in most cases they have fitted some button batteries inside the devices themselves so it appears they are really maintaining spin etc
I enjoy them because its like a puzzle to see how they are duping the viewer, they are nothing more then electrical magicians showing amazing wonders on the surface but all done with underlying tricks.

Viewer beware in most cases that they don't get pulled into the scam.

Ahh right that's interesting and yea you are quite right that I do watch these videos on YouTube, however a guy from Australia called Chas Campbell created a machine similar to mine but he added a flywheel and a few pullies, his system actually worked, he was actually showing it in the Australian news

 

[Silly Sausage]

... electrical magicians ...

The origin of the term 'Electrician'

 

[Dan]

Ahh right that's interesting and yea you are quite right that I do watch these videos on YouTube, however a guy from Australia called Chas Campbell created a machine similar to mine but he added a flywheel and a few pullies, his system actually worked, he was actually showing it in the Australian news

It's physically impossible to create free energy. Because all energy gets reused to always has a source. Always.

 

[ajay123]

Watch the video in this link,

 

[Dan]

Bless him and his machine that he plugs in. Lol

 

[Darkwood]

Ahh right that's interesting and yea you are quite right that I do watch these videos on YouTube, however a guy from Australia called Chas Campbell created a machine similar to mine but he added a flywheel and a few pullies, his system actually worked, he was actually showing it in the Australian news

No it didn't!!!!!! I can say with 100% confidence its fake and maybe even the claims of it been on the news, if it was it was probably in the entertainments section, just seen it lol, look at the news reader smirk when he introduces it

 

[ajay123]

Hi - easy one, it's the BFC effect - big friendly cables . I've forgotten the proper number now, but I'm going to say that for every kW you use at home 2kW is produced at the power station, ie half the energy is lost as heat on its way to you in cables and transformers etc. Also, the supply voltage at your house will drop as you increase the current draw. Hopefully not enough that you will notice flickering lights etc but it can be readily seen with test instruments. This is the end result of losses in transmission that means we can never get more useable energy out than is put in. Hope that helps. Cheers, David.

yea but how can more than 100 amps be available just from one 230 volt phase then, it will be similar to my system

 

[Dan]

Watch the video I posted above. A very intelligent girl explains it perfectly.

 

[ajay123]

No it didn't!!!!!! I can say with 100% confidence its fake and maybe even the claims of it been on the news, if it was it was probably in the entertainments section, just seen it lol, look at the news reader smirk when he introduces it

My head is so confused, I just don't know what to believe, I still just can't get my head around all this, I don't know what to believe, and yea some of the people who make these systems are also very smart and the people who don't believe in these systems are also smart too, but again I don't know what to do!!

 

[Dan]

My head is so confused, I just don't know what to believe, I still just can't get my head around all this, I don't know what to believe, and yea some of the people who make these systems are also very smart and the people who don't believe in these systems are also smart too, but again I don't know what to do!!

You can't make free energy. So don't spend money or time on this that you aren't willing to lose.

Sure, have some fun and learn why it's not possible, but don't be fooled by the snake oil of the physics world. Ha

 

[Darkwood]

That Video is 2 years old @ajay123 and yet he hasn't been killed by the oil comapnies, nor has he had it stolen and nor has it been replicated and proven to be a real claim, just got a confused old man who probably doesn't get how the real world works... ajay123, you probably picked the worst or best place on the internet depending what you want to hear here in trying to show or produce evidence that these things exist, our industry relies on the laws of thermodynamics been correct and the fact they cannot be violated as much as you have been enticed by these vids you need to step back and tell yourself they are all fake or your going to end up like that old man in the vid', deluded and probably lonely and skint trying to make said machine. :gru:

 

[ajay123]

Watch the video I posted above. A very intelligent girl explains it perfectly.

Yea I've watch that video before and I just watched it again, but that's system didn't actually use a proper source of power such as a motor.

 

[Darkwood]

My head is so confused, I just don't know what to believe, I still just can't get my head around all this, I don't know what to believe, and yea some of the people who make these systems are also very smart and the people who don't believe in these systems are also smart too, but again I don't know what to do!!

A lot of these people are smart and mainly in deception, many are not and deluded to the extent they don't see how the energy is distrubuted, how much power is used and how much load is present, take these like your initial example, using a small motor to run a larger inertia load up to speed and not realising you are not loading the gen' up and asking for its plated power rating so it can seem like your achieving a bigger return for your input but the minute you load the system then it all fails, look at the guy in the vid, the circular saw is running but has no load so requires a fraction of the power than it would need under normal usage but yet he claims the full rating of power been delivered, clearly a confused man with lack of understanding why he is wrong.

 

[Dan]

Yea I've watch that video before and I just watched it again, but that's system didn't actually use a proper source of power such as a motor.

No but it explains why energy isn't free.

All energy in the universe is reused infinitely. There isn't a source of energy that doesn't equally expel the same amount of energy.

What we try to find for green energy is a source that we can convert and use that isn't going to have a negative impact on something else. So wind, sun, wave etc - using those up doesn't change the qty the source has available.

When you're trying to create energy from nothing, you're showing you don't understand energy and nothing more.

Dig around a bit more and have a play by all means but don't spend money or miss picking the kids up from school for this kinda thing.

 

[ajay123]

That Video is 2 years old @ajay123 and yet he hasn't been killed by the oil comapnies, nor has he had it stolen and nor has it been replicated and proven to be a real claim, just got a confused old man who probably doesn't get how the real world works... ajay123, you probably picked the worst or best place on the internet depending what you want to hear here in trying to show or produce evidence that these things exist, our industry relies on the laws of thermodynamics been correct and the fact they cannot be violated as much as you have been enticed by these vids you need to step back and tell yourself they are all fake or your going to end up like that old man in the vid', deluded and probably lonely and skint trying to make said machine. :gru:

Hi, I am starting to understand more, although i would like to just point out that he has also improved his device and he made a video just last year, when you type in on YouTube free power generator almost Everyone has the same system as Chas Chambell does or similar

 

[Silly Sausage]

Try thinking about it from a different perspective.
You can't have more than 100%.
Say I had a 1kg lump of metal, I could cut it exactly in half and give you 50% of it, there is no possible way I could give you 110% of it.
Same with a 100% efficient generator, put in xWatts of mechanical energy and get out xW of electrical energy, there is no way you can get (x+y)W. Where does the yWatts come from?

 

[Darkwood]

Hi, I am starting to understand more, although i would like to just point out that he has also improved his device and he made a video just last year, when you type in on YouTube free power generator almost Everyone has the same system as Chas Chambell does or similar

And yet we are all still pay for power and been milked by the energy suppliers, its a nice dream but you really need to wake up to reality in the fact that these are fake, just because you are told something and even shown claimed evidence to back it up does not mean its real, look at youtube, people make money by number of views and when you get into the big list you can make millions for doing nothing, Charlie bit my finger made the owners 100 000 for a family 57second clip, so you see if you can create a stir and get viewers even in the 10 to 100 of thousands then you can get returns on you vids, as wild or believable as these claims are, they are just not true.

 

[ajay123]

A lot of these people are smart and mainly in deception, many are not and deluded to the extent they don't see how the energy is distrubuted, how much power is used and how much load is present, take these like your initial example, using a small motor to run a larger inertia load up to speed and not realising you are not loading the gen' up and asking for its plated power rating so it can seem like your achieving a bigger return for your input but the minute you load the system then it all fails, look at the guy in the vid, the circular saw is running but has no load so requires a fraction of the power than it would need under normal usage but yet he claims the full rating of power been delivered, clearly a confused man with lack of understanding why he is wrong.

Yea that's quite true about the circular saw not having a load and not requiring extra current, I am now actually feel like I'm been convinced now

 

[ajay123]

Try thinking about it from a different perspective.
You can't have more than 100%.
Say I had a 1kg lump of metal, I could cut it exactly in half and give you 50% of it, there is no possible way I could give you 110% of it.
Same with a 100% efficient generator, put in xWatts of mechanical energy and get out xW of electrical energy, there is no way you can get (x+y)W. Where does the yWatts come from?

Yea it's just I thought that I could use a small proportion of the 3000 watts from the generator or 2500 watts if you include the energy losses, to power the motor which is just 180 watts which will only for example output 120 watts worth of machanical movement

 

[Darkwood]

Yea that's quite true about the circular saw not having a load and not requiring extra current, I am now actually feel like I'm been convinced now

You're not the first and by no doubt the last to be taken in by such things and its not really anything to do with intelligence, its just that you don't have the necessary insight into the section of physics that prevent these machines from ever working, I have had this conversation multiple times with many people from varied backgrounds and some were high achievers in their own field, when you are fed enough info' to belief something then its easy to start to jump on board and join the party, (thats how religion works), but at least you were upfront enough to ask the question and patient enough to consider our replies.... welcome back to reality, we may have just saved you years of wasted time and money :mdancing:

 

[Dan]

 

[ajay123]

You're not the first and by no doubt the last to be taken in by such things and its not really anything to do with intelligence, its just that you don't have the necessary insight into the section of physics that prevent these machines from ever working, I have had this conversation multiple times with many people from varied backgrounds and some were high achievers in their own field, when you are fed enough info' to belief something then its easy to start to jump on board and join the party, (thats how religion works), but at least you were upfront enough to ask the question and patient enough to consider our replies.... welcome back to reality, we may have just saved you years of wasted time and money :mdancing:

You actually have saved me a lot of money, I actually thought of this concept of mine when I was very young and it's always been on the back of my mind for years, you have actually relived a weight off my head, also I don't want to start another rally but would it be a good idea by let's say putting an alternator or generator on each wheel on an electric car to help to charge the battery up on the go aswell as having a plug in charging port aswell?

 

[Dan]

You actually have saved me a lot of money, I actually thought of this concept of mine when I was very young and it's always been on the back of my mind for years, you have actually relived a weight off my head, also I don't want to start another rally but would it be a good idea by let's say putting an alternator or generator on each wheel on an electric car to help to charge the battery up on the go aswell as having a plug in charging port aswell?

That's been done. That's the KERS on f1 cars. They charge under breaking and they save the extra power and release it on the push of a button.


Do you guys think a science forum would be cool? I'm sure me alone would post as many threads in there as is in the pet forum we have.

 

[Dan]

Here's one for you, what happens to a swinging pendulum in a vacuum?

 

[telectrix]

 

[Rpa07]

Even the E F1 drivers have to change a car 1/2 way through the race instead of just tyres so that is definite proof that no energy is free - I think I'll go and sit in the sun. Good thread Ajay - NOW LEAVE IT!

 

[Rpa07]

Here's one for you, what happens to a swinging pendulum in a vacuum?

No room in my vacuum for dust let alone a swinging pendulum - you must empty yours quite often - good boy!

 

[Darkwood]

You actually have saved me a lot of money, I actually thought of this concept of mine when I was very young and it's always been on the back of my mind for years, you have actually relived a weight off my head, also I don't want to start another rally but would it be a good idea by let's say putting an alternator or generator on each wheel on an electric car to help to charge the battery up on the go aswell as having a plug in charging port aswell?

You cannot change your design or concept to get around the laws of physics, it applies to all models and concepts, lets say to turn an electric wheel one revolution takes 10watts as an example, if you wish to use this momentum created on the wheel to charge the battery then in a perfect 'no losses' world you would have to generate 10watts with the wheel, as the wheel is already working against the weight of the car, the friction of the road and many other losses then no you cannot use the turning of the wheel to replace the energy you needed to turn it in the first place. The only way you can achieve some sort of return is to use gravity and let the wheels charge the battery when going downhill or by directly charging the battery by reclaiming the energy out of the wheels momentum when braking (reminded by Dans post below), this technology is already used and reducing the need to recharge the battery and also lengthens its duration when been used, but again this will only return more into your battery if your going down more hills than up, you still have to gain the height in the first place to use gravity to your advantage, you say you are getting convinced but then you ask a different question that is flawed by the same rules we have explained to you... you need to give up this idea altogether that you can somehow recharge or power the original source of your machine by using your machines output in a closed loop ..... without trying to lower the tone too much, its akin to eating your own stools to provide you body with the energy it needs to work, the useful energy has aready been extracted and cannot be used again as that would be free energy and a rather disgusting case of bad breath.

 

[Dan]

The F1 cars use kinetic energy produced by the wheels moving (or braking) and use it to charge a battery. But they've already powered those wheels with a source of energy so it is spent already. They're just capturing some of it (or converting rather) to spend again.