New consumer unit, builder says upgrade supply

[pariah66]

Hi

As part of a loft conversion to my 2 (now 3) floor flat in a Victorian Terraced house I have added about a dozen 2-gang sockets, a shaving socket, and about 16 downlights to my new floor, plus swapping four pendant lights for 16 downlights in the floor below.

An electrician was installing a new consumer unit today and then I got a call from the head builder who is not onsite. He told me the electrician is concerned that the main service feed coming into the fuse/meter is only 10mm across. The electrician has apparently wired and tested everything (even though he's left the ground floor lights not working) but says we can't turn on the power in the loft as he is not confident the consumer unit will not burn out or the RCDs will be constantly tripping as the mains service cable is too thin.

The head builder told me I will probably have to upgrade my supply. He started advising me to call The National Grid (I think he means UK power networks).

I checked the main feed wire and by my measurements it looks around 12mm across. My builder was saying it should be more like 35 mm across and they'd never seen this before.

I apologise for the lack of detail but that's literally all the information I have aside from two photos of the set-up which are attached.

The reason I am posting is this all seems very light on detail. For instance I would expect a bit more calculation and maybe some figures to justify why we need to shell out many thousands potentially to upgrade the supply. The same amount of people will be living in the house, there are just likely to be a few more lights on and maybe an extra device plugged in.

Could anyone offer any advice about this? Should I just accept it, should I ask UK Power Networks about it, or should I be asking for more detail about how he came to this conclusion (and if so, what?)? Do the photos suggest what we have is obviously wrong? Any pointers would be much appreciated


cheers,
Pariah66

 

[Charlie_]

Bob is not the best electrician in the land is he?

He certainly isn’t a joule in the crown

 

[mhar]

Consumer unit aside, the builder was correct those meter tails do need changing. If you contact your electricity supplier, they usually do it for free when installing smart meter or isolator switch.

How can you tell if the tails are undersized? The tail size is dictated by the dno ocpd. We do not know the size of this ocpd, the csa of the existing tails or the current handling capacity of the meter.

The only details we really know about this installation is that the central and water heating are not electric in which case the demand is likely to be way under 80A.

 

[Charlie_]

who fits dual RCD boards these days?

Me

 

[GBDamo]

Friggin hell you lot, bet the OP never slept all night. You can give suitable advice, without scaring the bejesus out of people.

I thought exactly the same then paid a little more attention to the pictures.

It is rather rough and wanting a little in the compliance department.

What I can't get is, if there is a Spark and he has been on site doing the first and second fix then all the tails and routing issues could have been addressed 'off line' whilst he was doing other work. Either rank bad planning, not having a clue or both.

What's with the CU hanging off the back board?

The cables that come down from the ceiling appear to come from the middle of the ceiling. Obviously not long enough.

The entry in to the bottom.......

....Why am I bothering it an abortion and the OP should be having nightmares, if this 'on show' element is so shoddy then what demons hide out of sight?

 

[Charlie_]

So tempted to ask you to take the cover off the consumer unit

 

[Dustydazzler]

So tempted to ask you to take the cover off the consumer unit

 

[Charlie_]

It’s just what we all need for a Friday

 

[Dustydazzler]

It’s just what we all need for a Friday

Love a Friday funny

 

[James]

So tempted to ask you to take the cover off the consumer unit

Let’s open the can of worms!

 

[pariah66]

Friggin hell you lot, bet the OP never slept all night. You can give suitable advice, without scaring the bejesus out of people.

No I didn't sleep well after all of this!

 

[pariah66]

Consumer unit aside, the builder was correct those meter tails do need changing. If you contact your electricity supplier, they usually do it for free when installing smart meter or isolator switch.

Thanks, that's really helpful. I'll contact them.

 

[telectrix]

can't be arsed giving opinion on whoever fitted the CU. this may say it for me.

 

[mhar]

Thanks, that's really helpful. I'll contact them.

Read post 62 first. I do not believe there is any basis for that statement without knowing more facts

 

[pariah66]

So, an update. Thanks again for all the comments (even the funny ones!). Today the head builder came and we reviewed everything. The electrician stated that the job is not finished yet and also that he was told not to touch any of the existing wiring. A lot of what you see going in is existing wiring, which is 20 years old and is no doubt shocking. I am planning to rewire when I have paid off some of the loft. I pointed out some of the comments I heard here.

I also contacted UK power network who told me they are only responsible for up to the fuse. We found the incoming power feed (about 25mm thick) and the fuse in the basement, so the 10mm feed from the basement to my meter on the ground floor they tell me is my responsibility so an electrician can fix. I have send them a picture of the awful looking fuses and connectors in the basement around the main feed and asked them to comment whether anything needs replacing.

As I understand it at the moment I need UK power networks to check their bit, then get an electrician to run a new cable and sort out all of the earthing problems etc. before the meter, and possibly get the meter replaced by my power company. Finally, keep an eye on the work on the CU, get my certs and possibly get another electrician to check the work.

Hopefully I've understood everything right but that's what I've gleaned from the comments so far. Thanks all.

 

[Midwest]

It is rather rough and wanting a little in the compliance department.

That’s all that needs to be said. It’s not like it’s going to be rectified by end of today.

No point in worrying people anymore than that.

 

[Charlie_]

You don’t need to replace the pyro

 

[SparkyAndGeorge]

put a photo on of the finished product BEFORE final payment

 

[UKPN]

The service cable, (micc) needs reworking, fuse drawn by us at origin. Steel box with pyro terminated into it, no bango reqd, brass gland, 16mmsq earth from box into earth bar. Sit 100 amp existing series 7 on top of new box. 25mmsq brown and blue from cut out and meter from meter guys. Full test on con's wiring, and remedial.

 

[Octopus]

The service cable, (micc) needs reworking, fuse drawn by us at origin. Steel box with pyro terminated into it, no bango reqd, brass gland, 16mmsq earth from box into earth bar. Sit 100 amp existing series 7 on top of new box. 25mmsq brown and blue from cut out and meter from meter guys. Full test on con's wiring, and remedial.

Those are very bold statements and assumptions based on looking at a photo ......

 

[Resu]

Interesting comment without being able to see under the cover!

From what I've seen they have 100A RCDs other than I have no idea.

Not sure how a 17th unpopulated board differs from an 18th unpopulated board.

I've no idea how you can tell from that picture...

Awaiting enlightenment also....

I'm sure I read somewhere that the lid had to be hinged from the top, as in self closing, to comply with the regs pertaining to the containment of fire. Come to think of it, that info may have been getting banded about around amendment 3 time.

I also thought that.
My conclusion; I think we have found the sparky that done the job

Can't say it'd be worth my while to travel to the other end of the country to throw that on the wall.

 

[mhar]

The service cable, (micc) needs reworking, fuse drawn by us at origin. Steel box with pyro terminated into it, no bango reqd, brass gland, 16mmsq earth from box into earth bar. Sit 100 amp existing series 7 on top of new box. 25mmsq brown and blue from cut out and meter from meter guys. Full test on con's wiring, and remedial.

You can tell all this from a photo? How can you tell what fuse is inside the 100A rated fuse carrier?

 

[Pete999]

You can tell all this from a photo? How can you tell what fuse is inside the 100A rated fuse carrier?

Up early Mate?

 

[mhar]

Up early Mate?

Gulls start their racket around 4.30 at this time of year. They are about the only negative from living where I do. A few years ago I would often be up around dawn, rig my board and have an hour or two windsurfing before I started the day.

 

[Octopus]

Shame the OP hasn't posted a picture of the top face of the board .......

 

[a-z electrics]

From what I've seen they have 100A RCDs other than I have no idea.

Not sure how a 17th unpopulated board differs from an 18th unpopulated board.

I've no idea how you can tell from that picture...

Awaiting enlightenment also....

I think what he meant was .. its not the 18th board he fitted THAT DAY!

 

[stevels4]

You can tell all this from a photo? How can you tell what fuse is inside the 100A rated fuse carrier?

Didn’t say what the fuse rating was..stated the cut out is a series 7 rated at 100A.

 

[MG201]

Even though the op said it was old wiring that doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be glanded going into new CU , obv his builder has just done a bit of smooth talking, defo worth getting tested independently,

 

[Charlie_]

Gulls start their racket around 4.30 at this time of year. They are about the only negative from living where I do. A few years ago I would often be up around dawn, rig my board and have an hour or two windsurfing before I started the day.

Over here in the Isle of Man I installed a bird deterrent system for a development close to the cliffs of nesting gulls.
Part of the planning conditions apparently..
It came with loads of settings for different types of birds..
The one that seemed to work best was the noise of a hawk..
My favourite was the distressed gull sound, the gulls went crazy and swarmed the whole area, it was like a scene out of Hitchcock’s Birds.
Police came down and it got a mention on the radio.. I never mentioned a thing, just shrugged my shoulders and mingled in the crowd

 

[DPG]

'Distressed Gull' - best phrase so far on this forum I reckon.

 

[Baddegg]

'Distressed Gull' - best phrase so far on this forum I reckon.

Sounds like a Scottish girl that’s just bought a round!