New Offshore Renewable Energy Wind Farms Announced in UK

[Lou]

The government have today announced new wind farms in the UK at the lowest prices yet.

The farms will power around 7 million homes by 2025 and offers investors in the wind farms the lowest prices so far at £39.65 per megawatt per hour.

For comparison the new nuclear power station set to open in Somerset in 2025 will cost £92.50 per megawatt per hour

 

[Deleted account]

Nuclear is not the answer both environmentally or financially.

I knew the nuclear kwh was going to be pricey, I didn’t think it was going to be that pricey. Nearly 2 n half times.

In 50 years time when the life of the plant is over it will take a further 50,000 years for the half life of the contaminated material to get to a safe level.

Absolute nuts.

It would be more financially viable to stop production on the plant now even after what has be3n spent up TIL now.

 

[Zerax]

I don't like nuclear either... but the fact remains; we need electricity !!

My preferred solution of a national population cull to reduce demand is considered impractical for some reason...

 

[Lou]

I think wind is the way forward, we are a sodding island with windy seas all round us! Plonk loads of turbines in the sea and use wave power and wind power above. ?️?️?️???

 

[Deleted account]

I don't like nuclear either... but the fact remains; we need electricity !!

My preferred solution of a national population cull to reduce demand is considered impractical for some reason...

I’m with you and Richard Attenborough on the population crisis.

Less people means less demand for food and energy thus reducing the impact we are having on the natural world.


As for the fact we do need electricity.
There is enough potential energy in tidal around Britain alone to power the whole planet, but the so called Green Party and environmentalists won’t allow tidal barriers around the coast due to the impact on wildlife.

Yes there will be an impact on wildlife but the impact is going to be even greater if we keep burning fossil fuels and building nuclear stations even to the very wildlife they are protecting around the coast.

 

[Lou]

If they never move forward, the impact on us and the animals will be that we all end up extinct!! There are protests today around the world about climate change but then you have got people like Trump, president of a country with a carbon footprint the size of a giants boot saying that climate change does not exist!

As for the tidal barriers (thanks for the wording there pete) I thought we hardly had any fish because the EU stole them all, but that in a conversation for another time!!

 

[Zerax]

I’m with you and Richard Attenborough on the population crisis.

Less people means less demand for food and energy thus reducing the impact we are having on the natural world.


As for the fact we do need electricity.
There is enough potential energy in tidal around Britain alone to power the whole planet, but the so called Green Party and environmentalists won’t allow tidal barriers around the coast due to the impact on wildlife.

Yes there will be an impact on wildlife but the impact is going to be even greater if we keep burning fossil fuels and building nuclear stations even to the very wildlife they are protecting around the coast.

What gets my goat... it's the kids that are the most profligate users of the worlds resources... leaving taps running when brushing teeth, leaving all the lights on, buying a new top and wear it once then throw it away, buying bottled water, everything in hermetically sealed plastic... the list goes on and on... And then they have the gall to demonstrate about it !!! The words Clueless, Thick and Stupid spring to mind...
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... but then you have got people like Trump, president of a country with a carbon footprint the size of a giants boot saying that climate change does not exist!...

Well... that's in interesting topic... I read something the other week that suggested that the Earth is getting warmer because we've moved slightly closer to the Sun... there's valid data and argument for all sorts of viewpoints... Personally, I declare that I simply don't know !
Of all the possible reasons... the only one we can do anything about is the one blaming human habitation... so that's the one I'd like to reduce.

 

[Lou]

Been discussing this in another thread and I thought it would be interesting to see what others thought about this type of renewable energy for the UK.

Here is the thread, discussion welcome

New Offshore Renewable Energy Wind Farms announced in the UK

 

[Lou]

The shops are to blame too, there so much unnecessary packaging it's beyond a joke. Did you know you can't recycle black plastic that meat and stuff comes in?

Kebab shops and high street takeaways are bad too. Still using those polystyrene boxes that the big chains got rid of years ago.

And Amazon! Sending things I've ordered at the same time in different oversized boxes. Why can't they just use one that is the correct size for all. Even better, just stick a label on the box of the item.

Oh no, I'm starting to rant.

 

[Midwest]

The shops are to blame too, there so much unnecessary packaging it's beyond a joke. Did you know you can't recycle black plastic that meat and stuff comes in?

Kebab shops and high street takeaways are bad too. Still using those polystyrene boxes that the big chains got rid of years ago.

And Amazon! Sending things I've ordered at the same time in different oversized boxes. Why can't they just use one that is the correct size for all. Even better, just stick a label on the box of the item.

Oh no, I'm starting to rant.

Stop buying processed food, no more black containers.

Stop buying take aways, cook your meal, and not a processed one.

Stop buying products online. Close down the internet

 

[snowhead]

There's 2 choices for the future along with wind.
Either there is some Nuclear, to cope with sudden demands and days with little or no wind.
OR everyone will have to accept a managed supply, where in times of high demand power is cut to households in certain areas, much like in the miners strike.

 

[Midwest]

It’ll be alright; when we stop driving vehicles fuelled by fossil fuels and switched to ev cars, we won’t be contributing to all those noxious gases.

 

[Deleted account]

Oh no, I'm starting to rant.

Starting to?

I think the rant started in post 1.

Rightly so.

 

[Lou]

It’ll be alright; when we stop driving vehicles fuelled by fossil fuels and switched to ev cars, we won’t be contributing to all those noxious gases.

But how will the electric be made to charge them?
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Stop buying processed food, no more black containers.

Some meat comes in black plastic like mince

 

[Dan]

But how will the electric be made to charge them?
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Some meat comes in black plastic like mince

Mince is processed.....?

 

[static zap]

The black plastic thing was about the tech used to sort it,
(the internet is so well aware - that when they can .. We will still have the old Rumour -"It's a waste of time conspiracy-Stuck in our heads" NET-washed )
..By then will there be any water left to wash plastic !..
(mmmm ..Mince leave my Spag bol ingredients alone )

 

[Lou]

I watched a programme on TV a but ago that said it still couldn't be recycled. I think it was watchdog

 

[telectrix]

the 5p charge on plastic carrier bags has reduced their use by 85%. a step forward. BK are stopping making plastic toys with kids meals. McD. will soon follow. it's now down to pressurise the big concerns into cutting down on all the unnecessary packaging. and educating the masses into recycling, and applying heavy fines for dumping ( e.g.1 crisp packet out of car window = £50 spot fine if caught), and I'll promise not to chuck my smoke ends out at the traffic lights.

 

[Midwest]

But how will the electric be made to charge them?
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Ummpph five words
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Some meat comes in black plastic like mince

Spitting mince there.

 

[littlespark]

I remember that about black plastic. It doesn’t get recycled because the sorting technology uses a laser or something and just doesn’t see it.

Why do packaging still use polystyrene when moulded cardboard can be used?

I don’t mind amazon or Screwfix delivering in oversized cardboard boxes, as they get used another few times by me, and are readily recyclable...

When are we going to start moving rubbish onto the moon?
Or dumping it down an active volcano and letting the earths own furnaces incinerate it?

 

[Zerax]

the 5p charge on plastic carrier bags has reduced their use by 85%. a step forward. BK are stopping making plastic toys with kids meals. McD. will soon follow. it's now down to pressurise the big concerns into cutting down on all the unnecessary packaging. and educating the masses into recycling, and applying heavy fines for dumping ( e.g.1 crisp packet out of car window = £50 spot fine if caught), and I'll promise not to chuck my smoke ends out at the traffic lights.

Local Councils could make a start by actually recycling all that 'recycling' that they collect !! Also... what about have 10p deposit on plastic bottles ??

 

[telectrix]

Local Councils could make a start by actually recycling all that 'recycling' that they collect !! Also... what about have 10p deposit on plastic bottles ??

our local waste site boasts that it recycles 80% of all rubbish received. metals get sorted and sent for scrap, wood, cardboard ,plastic etc. , all sorted and recycled wherever possible.

 

[Zerax]

our local waste site boasts that it recycles 80% of all rubbish received. metals get sorted and sent for scrap, wood, cardboard ,plastic etc. , all sorted and recycled wherever possible.

You're lucky... many councils try not to collect it... as it costs them too much money to recycle it... Swindon is one. Also, there's a scam with 'recycling certificates' whereby a council pays someone (normally foreign) to recycle waste... they are given a 'certificate' to prove it will be recycled... but it never is... is either landfilled/burnt/dumped somewhere. Of course, this is all foreign so totally outside of UK jurisdiction.

 

[Midwest]

Our council stopped recycling 'fly away' plastic last year, cling film, crisp packets etc. My landfill bin, which I'd previously only used to put out 50% of the time, goes out every collection full of the stuff.

We do make an effort to avoid this plastic, but it comes with so much packaging.

Place where I work; we have recycle bins and landfill bins. The whole lot gets taken away and incinerated.

 

[Lou]

We have a recycle bin and a main waste bin, The neighbouring council has about 7 different bins for different materials and their recycle rate is low because people can't be bothered to sort it. I do admit 7 containers is a bit much..

 

[Midwest]

It does vary greatly, and suppose some properties don’t have the space for some many bins.

We used to have several different bins, which I strictly adhered to. Until our council sourced a different contractor, and I noticed my carefully sorted recycling, being chucked into the same truck!

Now have a bin for recycling, green waste bin, glass, food waste and landfill.

 

[Simon47]

Wind power is fine - provided you can work with it's characteristics. I'm also fine with people having "green" lecky supplies - but only if their supplies turn off when there's not enough green lecky. As it is, there is absolutely no such thing as a green tariff - all the supposedly green tariffs do is charge more for exactly the same thing the rest of us get. Load of greenwash.
As for nuclear, it's essential if we aren't to end up back in caves. As above, renewables aren't much help when they aren't producing. Solar doesn't work at night, wind suffers from sometimes widespread and prolonged calm periods. As an example, consider the calm spell in Dec 2010 - a couple of weeks (so forget about storage to carry you over) of very cold weather (so high demand for heating) with short days (minimal solar production) and virtually no wind over a large area. Pretty well reliant on nuclear, coal, and gas to keep the lights on.
Years ago in one of my professional journals there was an article on how there'd been (back in the 90, 80 or even earlier) a prolonged calm over much of northern Europe which lasted for something like 10 days. More recently I read a study where someone correlated wind output data from multiple EU countries and found (IIRC) several days where wind output was "very little" across those countries. So forget about the "we can buy it in via more interconnectors" arguments as well.

It must also be taken into account that the waste problem could be a lot less of an issue than it is. A bit part of the problem is that a relatively small group of misinformed people have created an environment requiring things be done in a sub optimal way. Handling of highly active waste could be reduced by simply waiting for it to be less active, and quantities could be significantly reduced by using it as fuel in fast breeder reactors.
There is a lot of work going into small modular reactor systems. Can be made inherently or intrinsically safe, and being small and modular reduces the capital cost and risk - all the things that makes our current "very big" reactor plants so expensive.

 

[Dan]

Don't know if anybody noticed this, but Lou (bless her) had added a poll to the thread, and got excited about it after working out how to do it. And she set the question to 'Are you for or against...' and the options were 'Yes' or 'No' lol

And people had voted for one or the other too.

I changed the poll options and question to read properly

 

[Midwest]

Wind power is fine - provided you can work with it's characteristics. I'm also fine with people having "green" lecky supplies - but only if their supplies turn off when there's not enough green lecky. As it is, there is absolutely no such thing as a green tariff - all the supposedly green tariffs do is charge more for exactly the same thing the rest of us get. Load of greenwash.
As for nuclear, it's essential if we aren't to end up back in caves. As above, renewables aren't much help when they aren't producing. Solar doesn't work at night, wind suffers from sometimes widespread and prolonged calm periods. As an example, consider the calm spell in Dec 2010 - a couple of weeks (so forget about storage to carry you over) of very cold weather (so high demand for heating) with short days (minimal solar production) and virtually no wind over a large area. Pretty well reliant on nuclear, coal, and gas to keep the lights on.

Some countries e.g. Norway produce their electricity from renewable sources. Given they have lots of rivers & streams filling fjords, it shows it can be done. IMO we use fossil fuels & nuclear 'cos its the easier option.

At some point fossil fuels will be exhausted, unless we've killed off the planet by then.

 

[Lou]

Don't know if anybody noticed this, but Lou (bless her) had added a poll to the thread, and got excited about it after working out how to do it. And she set the question to 'Are you for or against...' and the options were 'Yes' or 'No' lol

And people had voted for one or the other too.

I changed the poll options and question to read properly

You didn't have to tell everyone lol

 

[Simon47]

Some countries e.g. Norway produce their electricity from renewable sources. Given they have lots of rivers & streams filling fjords, it shows it can be done.

Key thing there is is the "they have lots of rivers & streams filling fjords" bit. They also have much higher terrain than we have, making the energy on those streams and rivers much higher. And I think you'll find that they are much more sparsely populated than we are.
We actually have few good sites for hydro - and most of them already have schemes running on them. The non-pumped ones suffer from running out of water in dry spells, the pumped ones act like big batteries and rely on something else low-carbon (eg nuclear) to "charge" them.
So we have a much higher demand, and far fewer (and lower grade) sites available - hence we don't have much usable hydro capacity.

IMO we use fossil fuels & nuclear 'cos its the easier option.

Only in part - we use them because they work and are reliable. Nuclear can not be described as "easier" when you see the hurdles that have to be jumped to get a new plant off the drawing board.

At some point fossil fuels will be exhausted, unless we've killed off the planet by then.

People keep saying that, but of course, as stuff get "rarer" and the price rises, it then becomes cost effective to pull more stuff out of the ground. And there's a heck of a lot left down there yet.

 

[Dan]

People keep saying that, but of course, as stuff get "rarer" and the price rises, it then becomes cost effective to pull more stuff out of the ground. And there's a heck of a lot left down there yet.

It's not what's down there. It's what we're doing with it. Burning it and releasing the CO2.

We don't even know what's beyond even a onion peels worth of the planet in the grand scheme of things.

But nothing disappears fully. We convert one energy to another. So it's in the atmosphere.

Eventually, too much for us to live with as humans unless we have natural selection to evolve.

And we're developing new tech and burning more fossil fuels at a rate faster than we are evolving naturally.

That's the issue.

It's not how much it is to mine. And how much is there.