steel conduit help

[h901]

hi everyone

i've recently started using steel conduit and so far most of the jobs where i've used it have been fairly simple (straight runs). i've got a job that requires quite a few 90 bends to be made (i've bought a hilmor bender and have been practising using it) i've just got a few questions which i'm hoping the members with more experience than me can help with. any other tips and tricks will be very helpful too

1) should the saddles be installed first?

2) how would one connect conduit with a 90 bend to a straight piece, if for example the run is quite long - something like - I________I
is this done before or after fitting it to the wall, as i tried doing it once when it was already fitted to the wall and couldn't get the couplers to hold (before fitting to the saddles), as i was screwing one side on, the other side of the coupler was screwing off the other conduit

3) what are conduit nipples used for exactly?

4) when trying to make a 90 bend at around 1.5m in the conduit, i wasn't able to do it with the hilmor shorty as the conduit hit the floor before the bend reached the correct angle, so instead i cut off the top of the conduit and then re-attached it later with couplers (was this correct)

apologies for the long questions and thanks in advance

 

[Pete999]

hi everyone

i've recently started using steel conduit and so far most of the jobs where i've used it have been fairly simple (straight runs). i've got a job that requires quite a few 90 bends to be made (i've bought a hilmor bender and have been practising using it) i've just got a few questions which i'm hoping the members with more experience than me can help with. any other tips and tricks will be very helpful too

1) should the saddles be installed first?

2) how would one connect conduit with a 90 bend to a straight piece, if for example the run is quite long - something like - I________I
is this done before or after fitting it to the wall, as i tried doing it once when it was already fitted to the wall and couldn't get the couplers to hold (before fitting to the saddles), as i was screwing one side on, the other side of the coupler was screwing off the other conduit

3) what are conduit nipples used for exactly?

4) when trying to make a 90 bend at around 1.5m in the conduit, i wasn't able to do it with the hilmor shorty as the conduit hit the floor before the bend reached the correct angle, so instead i cut off the top of the conduit and then re-attached it later with couplers (was this correct)

apologies for the long questions and thanks in advance

For joining conduit to a piece already in situ, use a running coupler

 

[sam400]

Hello mate

1) yes!
2) spin them together 1st or use a running coupler to join in situ
3) female to female connections
4) bend up!

Hope that helps

Sam

 

[Leesparkykent]

1 saddles should really be screwed to the wall 1st

2 running coupler where it can't be fabricated on the floor then installed or manufacturers bend.

3 1 example is two conduit boxes next to each other. 1 right angle box and a stopend with no conduit in between (two cameras mounted on these boxes side by side for example).

4 turn the stop bar to the bottom and bend upwards.

 

[h901]

Thanks guys, really appreciate the help.

 

[Midwest]

Think that was a have.

 

[Midwest]

For joining conduit to a piece already in situ, use a running coupler

Pete, did you miss this one; pete999 and forum not working - http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/pete999-and-forum-not-working.118581/#post-1240736

 

[Pete999]

Pete, did you miss this one; pete999 and forum not working - http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/threads/pete999-and-forum-not-working.118581/#post-1240736

Missed the one about choice words and going to the bunker, never realised I was that popular

 

[Perci]

I prefer to see a galv through box used instead of a running thread as I don't like seeing any thread on show. This also provides a pulling point to help with wiring

 

[Pete999]

I prefer to see a galv through box used instead of a running thread as I don't like seeing any thread on show. This also provides a pulling point to help with wiring

Neither do I Perci, but there come a time when you have to use a running coupler, why have you stipulated a Galv box?

 

[h901]

Does anybody have a picture of a running coupler? Also where could i get hold of one from. I've searched online and can't find it anywhere. (I usually get steel conduit from TLC or screwfix and can't find any running couplers on their sites)

 

[Flanders]

You don't buy running cupplers you make one. You thred the conduit the length of a coupler plus a lock ring

 

[cliffed]

1 saddles should really be screwed to the wall 1st

2 running coupler where it can't be fabricated on the floor then installed or manufacturers bend.

3 1 example is two conduit boxes next to each other. 1 right angle box and a stopend with no conduit in between (two cameras mounted on these boxes side by side for example).

4 turn the stop bar to the bottom and bend upwards.

I always offer conduit to fixed position,then level up & mark saddles after,& fix.

 

[cliffed]

brill to see conduit back in use,rarely used these days,& I miss it,so much better job,& satisfaction guaranteed.
What job are you using it on,be interested to know.

 

[Pete999]

Does anybody have a picture of a running coupler? Also where could i get hold of one from. I've searched online and can't find it anywhere. (I usually get steel conduit from TLC or screwfix and can't find any running couplers on their sites)

You can't buy the running coupler, you make them yourself as and when you need to.
The running coupler is, if I can explain it in words, as follows. imagine you have to join two pieces of conduit by the running coupler method, and you have a MALE end.
On the piece you wish to join there is also a MALE end, extend this thread by tonjust over the length of a coupler and a locking ring or lock nut.
Run the lock nut on to the long thread until you run out of thread, now run the coupler on, you will be left with a MALE end on the conduit that is fixed to the wall, now install the conduit with the coupler and lock nut until the MALE end and the conduit with the coupler and lock nut meet, now turn the coupler onto the MALE end and then lock it in place with the lockring.

I hope that is understandable

 

[westward10]

Neither do I Perci, but there come a time when you have to use a running coupler, why have you stipulated a Galv box?

Ask for black enamel these days Pete the wholesaler will think you are speaking another language.

 

[Pete999]

Does anybody have a picture of a running coupler? Also where could i get hold of one from. I've searched online and can't find it anywhere. (I usually get steel conduit from TLC or screwfix and can't find any running couplers on their sites)

Mate I seriously hope you haven't been into a wholesaler and asked for one, mind you with some of the Herbert's working in some of them now I doubt if any of them know what a running coupler is, certainly that would be the case in Screwfix, I can just imagine one of the staff running around the stockroom in a panic, "where are the 20mm running couplers kept"

 

[westward10]

I prefer to see a galv through box used instead of a running thread as I don't like seeing any thread on show. This also provides a pulling point to help with wiring

The use of a running coupler is employed because the nature of the system prevents the use of a conduit box.

 

[Wilko]

You can get anything on the net these days

20mm Metal Conduit Coupler - https://quickbit.co.uk/20mm-Metal-conduit-coupler

View attachment 35359

 

[Pete999]

You can get anything on the net these days

20mm Metal Conduit Coupler - https://quickbit.co.uk/20mm-Metal-conduit-coupler

View attachment 35359

Just a bog standard coupler Wilko.

 

[westward10]

I remember my first conduit install many years ago. Was a small warehouse and we had done the lighting runs at high level off two tall A frames and scaffold boards! All that was left was the toilet block, my old gaffer told me what was needed and disappeared, now I realise probably laughing. All was going well and I got stuck because no matter what I did there were two sections I could not join, I even assembled it in the warehouse then couldn't get it back through the toilet door. My gaffer returned knowing what was going to happen and showed me a running coupler.

 

[westward10]

Just a bog standard coupler Wilko.

I am hoping he is giving the op a clue.

 

[Wilko]

I am hoping he is giving the op a clue.

Hope springs eternal

 

[westward10]

Reread the original post, to join a straight length to a bend you just need a coupler.

 

[Pete999]

Reread the original post, to join a straight length to a bend you just need a coupler.

I know but he was saying as he screwed one end the other end came undone (wish I had been there) or something akin to that not sure as I'm bored with conduit now, it's pub time, or soon will be. surely everyone know how to join 2 lengths of tube together, with a coupler you say, wish it was as simple as that in real life.

 

[h901]

brill to see conduit back in use,rarely used these days,& I miss it,so much better job,& satisfaction guaranteed.
What job are you using it on,be interested to know.

Fitting some CCTV cameras and just wanted to make the installation look neat and professional (In my opinion steel conduit looks the part)

Mate I seriously hope you haven't been into a wholesaler and asked for one, mind you with some of the Herbert's working in some of them now I doubt if any of them know what a running coupler is, certainly that would be the case in Screwfix, I can just imagine one of the staff running around the stockroom in a panic, "where are the 20mm running couplers kept"

Haha not yet mate, just done some searching online.

I know but he was saying as he screwed one end the other end came undone (wish I had been there) or something akin to that not sure as I'm bored with conduit now, it's pub time, or soon will be. surely everyone know how to join 2 lengths of tube together, with a coupler you say, wish it was as simple as that in real life.

Yes that's correct.

You can't buy the running coupler, you make them yourself as and when you need to.
The running coupler is, if I can explain it in words, as follows. imagine you have to join two pieces of conduit by the running coupler method, and you have a MALE end.
On the piece you wish to join there is also a MALE end, extend this thread by tonjust over the length of a coupler and a locking ring or lock nut.
Run the lock nut on to the long thread until you run out of thread, now run the coupler on, you will be left with a MALE end on the conduit that is fixed to the wall, now install the conduit with the coupler and lock nut until the MALE end and the conduit with the coupler and lock nut meet, now turn the coupler onto the MALE end and then lock it in place with the lockring.

I hope that is understandable

I kind of understand, I'll read it again tomorrow and try it out at home. Thanks

 

[cliffed]

Fitting some CCTV cameras and just wanted to make the installation look neat and professional (In my opinion steel conduit looks the part)



Haha not yet mate, just done some searching online.



Yes that's correct.



I kind of understand, I'll read it again tomorrow and try it out at home. Thanks

 

[cliffed]

Advice given to me when I was apprentice was,don't be to elaborate with conduit,make the least amount of sets,kicks,saddle over'S as possible.
Straight runs & ease of installation paramount,you have a look around at some of the older jobs,conduits everywhere,bending in out over & down,basically not a clue on how to install correctly,really looks nasty.

 

[Pete999]

Advice given to me when I was apprentice was,don't be to elaborate with conduit,make the least amount of sets,kicks,saddle over'S as possible.
Straight runs & ease of installation paramount,you have a look around at some of the older jobs,conduits everywhere,bending in out over & down,basically not a clue on how to install correctly,really looks nasty.

It's an art to which (I don't know why) I was very good at. I say was, not touched it for a while

 

[westward10]

Not one of my favourite things, my old gaffer taught me bends using a wood block with holes at either end. He was a master, could turn out perfect swan necks every time.

 

[Pete999]

Not one of my favourite things, my old gaffer taught me bends using a wood block with holes at either end. He was a master, could turn out perfect swan necks every time.

For some reason I got a name as being the conduit King, the Boss would say "conduit, give it to Pete" don't know what it was, I was just good at it, never had any special tuition, some folk are good at something and can't explain it that was me.

 

[7029 dave]

Shame these skills are not being taught any more.I read a post long time ago, chap was saying that conduit work was labourers work. Don't think so.!!

 

[Pete999]

Shame these skills are not being taught any more.I read a post long time ago, chap was saying that conduit work was labourers work. Don't think so.!!

What planet was that idiot from?

 

[Rocboni]

It is still being taught, well it is on the SVQ3. Was part of the of the Scottish apprentice of the year competition aswell (which I came 2nd)

 

[Leesparkykent]

Still taught in my local college.

 

[Flanders]

Just to add do not put any more 2 bends or 1 bend and a double set in a run without a draw through point

 

[Midwest]

Think that was a have.

Also useful accessories for conduit installations, are sky hooks for mounting fluorescents and long weights for cable pulling. All available from your local wholesalers.

 

[Pete999]

Also useful accessories for conduit installations, are sky hooks for mounting fluorescents and long weights for cable pulling. All available from your local wholesalers.

What about running couplers?

 

[Midwest]

What about running couplers?

Don't be so ridiculous Pete!

 

[Pete999]

Don't be so ridiculous Pete!

OK Sorry

 

[Flanders]

What about running couplers?

No you just need elbow grease for them !!!

 

[Midwest]

I'm off to get some tartan paint and a left-handed screwdriver.

 

[Pete999]

I'm off to get some tartan paint and a left-handed screwdriver.

I knew it I just Knew it bound to get stupid once everyone got back home

 

[Risteard]

Forgive me for asking but why was steel conduit not on the curriculum when the OP was training? I didn't think it had been removed. Or was a non-electrical Apprenticeship undertaken?

 

[Midwest]

Think OP installs cctv, and is using steel conduit now.

 

[Leclanche]

It's an art to which (I don't know why) I was very good at. I say was, not touched it for a while

Whenever steel conduit is mentioned it always reminds me of when as a young lad in the early eighties I was working on a school refurb and all the work was in steel conduit/trunking and I had to fit a 3 meter horizontal run at about 2.5 meters high on a inner curved wall fixed with distance saddles. I was dreading it.... racked my brain trying find another route but in the end it had to be. Thinking best get a bundle of conduit for this,going to be a lot of bend pieces of scrap here today. So after a sleepless night and convinced it would all go pear shaped after making sure no one was about and not likley to be for some time I tentatively got my first length of conduit on the bending machine and started,this could have gone so wrong in many ways but to my complete amazement after a few bend it & hope moments it fitted perfectly, straight as a die and followed the contours of the wall exactly, I was pleased as punch and in a great mood all day. It was in the days before phone cameras otherwise I would have so many pictures to bore you with. I never got the praise I thought I deserved even after trying to coast one out of the clerk of the electrical works but to no avail. It's probably all changed again since and no longer there but that little piece of conduit made me so happy......ha..ha..memories eh!
Oh forgot to mention this needed a running coupler or runner joint as we called them to fit.

 

[Andy78]

Shame these skills are not being taught any more.I read a post long time ago, chap was saying that conduit work was labourers work. Don't think so.!!

I have known it always being a mate's or apprentices job on most sites. And why not ? It's the sort of skill that takes time to master so lots of practice makes sense.

 

[snowhead]

Just to add do not put any more 2 bends or 1 bend and a double set in a run without a draw through point

Unless you're making a sledge out of 1 length.

That used to sort the the skilled and not so skilled out.
2 x 90's
2 x 45's
2 x 180's

1 for your own kids
1 for next doors kids
and 1 for the pipe fitter in exchange for welding the ends up.

 

[Pete999]

Forgive me for asking but why was steel conduit not on the curriculum when the OP was training? I didn't think it had been removed. Or was a non-electrical Apprenticeship undertaken?

I have known it always being a mate's or apprentices job on most sites. And why not ? It's the sort of skill that takes time to master so lots of practice makes sense.

Trouble today, Andy is all these training courses concentrate on getting as many passes out of the class as possible, the more passes the more money they make, sound business strategy, but it's mostly theory, most of the practical work consists of banging a bit of PVC tube on a wooden wall, clip a few cables here and there, bit of testing and Bob's your Uncle instant Sparkies.
I take your point about how it used to be the mates job to do the conduit work, people will take the pees when I say in my day you were taught to do tube work, trunking etc, didn't have tray when I was a Lad, it wasn't that is was the Apprentices job to do it, most large jobs I was involved in the Electrician was in charge of tubing, I learnt by watching and asking if I could do ome conduit, as opposed to standing around handing bits and pieces to the Spark. Sorry for the ramble.

 

[westward10]

Must admit I don't remember doing too much at college, you picked it up on site.