Comsumer unit - upstairs/downstairs ring mains

[taconite1]

Hello,

I bought a new build and noticed the upstairs MCB is controlling some sockets on the opposite floor, so if I flick the upstairs MCB it's also switching off a socket downstairs (I think it's a spur) in addition to all the ones upstairs

Is there anything within 7671 that states this is wrong?

I asked the contactor on site and they said it can be re-wired but it's down to my prefrence. Is this correct? Surely the regs have something to say on this.

P.S this same contractor didn't earth some of the metal faceplate light switches (including backbox) - so I don't trust them at all. Despite having a NIC form filled in and signed by two qualifed electricans!!

 

[brianmoooore]

Nothing wrong with having sockets on different floors wired on the same MCB as long as the labelling on the CU reflects this or doesn't mention 'upstairs' or 'downstairs' at all.
I've almost always grouped socket circuits in downstairs rooms with the rooms directly above, except for kitchens and utility rooms.

 

[taconite1]

Nothing wrong with having sockets on different floors wired on the same MCB as long as the labelling on the CU reflects this or doesn't mention 'upstairs' or 'downstairs' at all.
I've almost always grouped socket circuits in downstairs rooms with the rooms directly above, except for kitchens and utility rooms.

Hi nope it has stickers for upstairs and downstairs

 

[brianmoooore]

Hi nope it has stickers for upstairs and downstairs

That can easily be corrected with a pen.

 

[taconite1]

Hi nope it has stickers for upstairs and downstairs

Probably! Problem is where this offending socket is it's next to two other sockets on the opposite ring main.

Which brings me onto my next question - how was the house signed off?

 

[westward10]

It is an odd thing to do but nothing wrong with it, might gave been done if the other circuit failed you still have one close by working. Metal switch front plates not being earthed is a big issue.

 

[taconite1]

It is an odd thing to do but nothing wrong with it, might gave been done if the other circuit failed you still have one close by working. Metal switch front plates not being earthed is a big issue.

Even if the backbox isn't earthed either?

 

[westward10]

Even if the backbox isn't earthed either?

They should both be earthed. I wonder if the other properties are the same, this sort of thing is fundamental.

 

[taconite1]

They should both be earthed. I wonder if the other properties are the same, this sort of thing is fundamental.

I asked that question but they wouldn't answer!! It would open a can of worms regarding rework!

Our house was probably the 15th built on site so if they got this far and are making mistakes like that - it does make you wonder

 

[brianmoooore]

They should both be earthed. I wonder if the other properties are the same, this sort of thing is fundamental.

I always fit a fly lead on both switches and sockets, but the last time I looked it was apparently considered acceptable to earth the plate and rely on the fixing screws to earth the box, provided one of the fixings in the box is 'fixed' and not the adjustable (to level the fitting) type.

 

[pc1966]

Even if the backbox isn't earthed either?

These days it is not uncommon to earth just the faceplate, and not the back-box, but not all accessories actually earth via the fixing screws.

Of course, with plastic back-boxes its a bit moot...

 

[brianmoooore]

Of course, with plastic back-boxes its a bit moot...

Checked over a mobile home a few weeks ago. Plastic back boxes, earth wires tucked in the back in choc block, and unearthed metal plated switches!

 

[taconite1]

These days it is not uncommon to earth just the faceplate, and not the back-box, but not all accessories actually earth via the fixing screws.

Of course, with plastic back-boxes its a bit moot...

I realise that - problem was neither were earthed....

 

[pc1966]

I realise that - problem was neither were earthed....

Ah, that is an issue!

 

[westward10]

I realise that - problem was neither were earthed....

Are the building company still on site?

 

[taconite1]

Are the building company still on site?

They are. I asked one why it wasn't earthed correctly and he said it was an "oversight". It's fixed now (I basically told them to go around with a tester and touch each light switch for earth) but as a homeowner why am I picking these things up? Hence my concerns now with the MCBs on the consumer unit.

 

[taconite1]

They are. I asked one why it wasn't earthed correctly and he said it was an "oversight". It's fixed now (I basically told them to go around with a tester and touch each light switch for earth) but as a homeowner why am I picking these things up? Hence my concerns now with the MCBs on the consumer unit.

Pic attached - found 6 more like this

 

[brianmoooore]

I realise that - problem was neither were earthed....

So what did they actually do with the earth wire?

 

[taconite1]

So what did they actually do with the earth wire?

Choc block - see pic above

 

[westward10]

I couldn't have connected that any worse if I'd tried. That screams unskilled incompetence.

 

[pc1966]

Pic attached - found 6 more like this

That is simply rubbish and clearly wrong on a couple of levels.

 

[brianmoooore]

Pic wasn't there when I wrote that.
Absolutely unbelievable standard of work.

 

[taconite1]

Yeap agreed! I told them this. All I got was a shrug and a claim they'd fix them.

They also tried to claim I shouldn't be taking faceplates off walls. However I deem myself competent and therefore within the regs. He was a bit stunned when I quoted that. Think he was more upset he was caught doing rubbish work.

 

[westward10]

You need to speak to the site manager not the electrical contractors. I suspect he/she may also shrug because it is being rectified but ask for their name subject to a complaint to the main contractor.

 

[taconite1]

You need to speak to the site manager not the electrical contractors. I suspect he/she may also shrug because it is being rectified but ask for their name subject to a complaint to the main contractor.

Already tried that. I said they need sacking. His response was if they sacked everyone who did a rubbish job he'd have no one to build houses! That site manager quit a week later. The new one just avoids me now. I've apprantly got a reputation on site!

 

[littlespark]

What’s wrong with a homeowner taking a faceplate off if you isolate the circuit?


Do you have the option of a snagging list period?

New build developments are notorious for corner cutting…. In all trades.
I’m still coming across issues with my electrics after 14 years.

Tell them you’re going to organise an EICR from your own choice of electrician to find any more issues if they don’t sort it all pronto.


The threat of contacting BBC Rogue Traders can also work wonders.

 

[taconite1]

What’s wrong with a homeowner taking a faceplate off if you isolate the circuit?


Do you have the option of a snagging list period?

New build developments are notorious for corner cutting…. In all trades.
I’m still coming across issues with my electrics after 14 years.

Tell them you’re going to organise an EICR from your own choice of electrician to find any more issues if they don’t sort it all pronto.


The threat of contacting BBC Rogue Traders can also work wonders.

Exactly my point to them. They clearly just don't like being questioned on the regs by a DIYer like me.

Yes it was on the snag list. Been here 8 weeks now. Problem is they repair it but what about the other houses who don't spot these things? I bet professional snaggers don't take faceplates off.

The EICR is a waste of time from what I've seen here

 

[westward10]

Go direct to the main contractor. Those on site are not interested they just want it wrapped up to move on, as already said the quality of work carried out on modern house builds is dire.

 

[ipf]

It's scandalous.... but such standards seem to be the norm these days.
It's also scandalous a house owner be fobbed off, by the contractor, as a trouble maker for reporting such an important matter. Report to main contractors and make it public.
EIC for a new installation, for what it's worth.

 

[taconite1]

It's scandalous.... but such standards seem to be the norm these days.
It's also scandalous a house owner be fobbed off, by the contractor, as a trouble maker for reporting such an important matter. Report to main contractors and make it public.
EIC for a new installation, for what it's worth.

Thanks!

What good is a EIC if an electrican gets his mate to sign it? Would anything come of reporting them to NICEIC?

 

[taconite1]

Few questions from me

• Is a "DOMESTIC ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION CERTIFICATE" the same as the "building regulations certificate of compliance"?
• if they move a socket from the ring main upstairs to downstairs do i need a new DOMESTIC ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION CERTIFICATE?
• I've been around and counted the sockets and it doesn't match up to the quantities refered to on the DOMESTIC ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION CERTIFICATE - another problem?

 

[pirate]

I have come across this many times..."If I sacked all the rubbish workmen, I'd have nobody to build houses"...but these houses are not cheap! No, they are very overpriced, but built cheaply to maximise profit.
That pic of the wiring is just an example of awful workmanship. I'm not an electrician but I'd be ashamed of myself if I wired stuff like that. OK< some of my stuff might be less than perfect, but I'd be happy for someone to take off some faceplates and try to find real fault. It's not really rocket-science to wire a socket, but it's a proper skill to do it properly, and if you can't do it, don't pretend that you can (and charge good money for shoddy work).
To the OP, if your house is covered by the NHBC scheme you could try a complaint to them...but it's a waste of time.