The big difference in the electric terminology and installation regulations and practice in each country!

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Megawatt

Megawatt

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I’m from the US and I’m just trying to learn how UK does things and the terminology of what I call something verses what y’all call materials. I read some of this and I mostly don’t know what being said and I’ve been doing this for 32 years
 
in domestics, we generally use twin& earth cable. :
1564858602713.png
hot wire we call line(brown) . neutral (Blue), and what you would call the ground wire, we call it "circuit protective conductor (cpc). OH, and due to some silly farts back in the 1970's all our cable is metric.

that's a start
 
Not to confuse matters, we often call the cpc or ground wire an earth wire.
Not that this is the correct technical term
Just a throwback from the past.
 
Why not grab yourself an old copy of our equivalent of the NEC (BS7671, aka the 'wiring regs'.) It would take a long time to run through each difference but you could get most of the story even though the book isn't fully up to date.

One of the main differences is that BS7671 is less prescriptive than the NEC. There's less talk of how many wires you may join in a particular size of box, and more emphasis on calculating and evaluating the characteristics of each cable and material and assessing the suitability for yourself. We're also much more into testing. Not only volt drop and ampacity but earth fault and short-circuit loop impedances and their corresponding fault currents are all assessed for every circuit before installation, and then tested afterwards and compared to the curves of the breakers to ensure they will operate correctly, before a circuit is considered ready for use.

Some important supply differences:

Our supplies are 50 Hz (=cycles), so induction motors run at approximately 1000, 1500, 3000 rpm instead of 1200, 1800, 3600.

Domestic services are 230V single phase, typically 100A. Line (=hot) and neutral are provided by the network, sometimes earth too, otherwise a rod is used. Only the network operator is allowed to combine (=bond) neutral and earth, they may not be linked in the distribution board (=panel). Split phase (as in typical US services with two lines each 120V to neutral and 240V between them) is never used, although a very few old rural installations where the high voltage supply is only single-phase have 240-0-240 with 480V between lines.

Industrial and commercial services are normally 3-phase 4-wire star (=wye) 400V line-line, 230V line-neutral, from the same distribution cables as the domestic single-phase but with all three phases present instead of just one. There are no open delta, edge grounded or high-leg asymmetrical configurations. An increasing number of larger industrial loads are 690/400V.

More later on materials and circuits...
 
Lucien Nunes said:
Why not grab yourself an old copy of our equivalent of the NEC (BS7671, aka the 'wiring regs'.) It would take a long time to run through each difference but you could get most of the story even though the book isn't fully up to date.

One of the main differences is that BS7671 is less prescriptive than the NEC. There's less talk of how many wires you may join in a particular size of box, and more emphasis on calculating and evaluating the characteristics of each cable and material and assessing the suitability for yourself. We're also much more into testing. Not only volt drop and ampacity but earth fault and short-circuit loop impedances and their corresponding fault currents are all assessed for every circuit before installation, and then tested afterwards and compared to the curves of the breakers to ensure they will operate correctly, before a circuit is considered ready for use.

Some important supply differences:

Our supplies are 50 Hz (=cycles), so induction motors run at approximately 1000, 1500, 3000 rpm instead of 1200, 1800, 3600.

Domestic services are 230V single phase, typically 100A. Line (=hot) and neutral are provided by the network, sometimes earth too, otherwise a rod is used. Only the network operator is allowed to combine (=bond) neutral and earth, they may not be linked in the distribution board (=panel). Split phase (as in typical US services with two lines each 120V to neutral and 240V between them) is never used, although a very few old rural installations where the high voltage supply is only single-phase have 240-0-240 with 480V between lines.

Industrial and commercial services are normally 3-phase 4-wire star (=wye) 400V line-line, 230V line-neutral, from the same distribution cables as the domestic single-phase but with all three phases present instead of just one. There are no open delta, edge grounded or high-leg asymmetrical configurations. An increasing number of larger industrial loads are 690/400V.

More later on materials and circuits...
Click to expand...
Very good information and I’ve wired quite a few European equipment and yes all the wire was in millimeters with European drawings which uses different symbols. I was wiring a machine for a man from Finland and he couldn’t understand that if we could we had to run it in pipe. He was a cool guy just trouble with communication
 
Megawatt said:
Very good information and I’ve wired quite a few European equipment and yes all the wire was in millimeters with European drawings which uses different symbols. I was wiring a machine for a man from Finland and he couldn’t understand that if we could we had to run it in pipe. He was a cool guy just trouble with communication
Click to expand...
Do y’all have to draw permits and when you are finished get it inspected
 
On single family dwellings it’s 240vac single phases with 2 hots and a grounded conductor-and we, not the power company drive 2 rods at the service 6 feet apart and bond the neutral bar in the main panel and bond the water lines if there is galvanized piping When you have to bury wire it has to be 24 inches to the top of the pipe
 
Megawatt said:
On single family dwellings it’s 240vac single phases with 2 hots and a grounded conductor-and we, not the power company drive 2 rods at the service 6 feet apart and bond the neutral bar in the main panel and bond the water lines if there is galvanized piping When you have to bury wire it has to be 24 inches to the top of the pipe
Click to expand...
The manufacturing plants are mostly 480 vac delta ungrounded systems. That makes you have to lnstall a lot of transformers to get you 208/120 on the secondary side of the transformers. We do have plants that have 480 vac 3 phase star connections also
 
Megawatt said:
What do spured fuses mean
Click to expand...
The correct terminology is fuse connection unit which are often called spurs as they are often used for spurring from a ring final circuit. It is essentially a double-pole switch which incorporates a fuse, up to 13A to protect the load side circuit.
 
A fused spur is a lower-rated branch circuit made from a higher-rated circuit, via a local fuse to protect the branch. This is done using a standard device called a fused connection unit, example here: BG fused connection unit . It often includes a double-pole switch to provide isolation if needed, and/or a power indicator, but it must contain a BS1362 cartridge fuse, the same type as used in our fused plugs. Most common fuses are 3 & 13A (also available 1, 2, 5, 7 & 10A).

For example, If you want a small supply for an outside light and there is a 32A circuit for socket outlets nearby, then you can install a fused connection unit with a 3A fuse to make a branch circuit for the light, instead of running a new lighting circuit all the way back to the panel. A fused connection unit can also used to connect a permanently installed appliance such as duct fan, instead of a plug and socket outlet. to stop people unplugging it to use the outlet. Here it's not technically a 'spur' but we have a habit of calling the fused connection unit itself a spur, or spur box.

Fused connection units were invented alongside fused plugs and the scheme of using socket outlet circuits of much higher rating than the plugs themselves. 32A circuits are popular, offering 7.4 kilowatts per circuit (compared to the 2.4kW of a 20A 120V outlet circuit), so a large number of typical appliances can be powered from one circuit. This is only possible due to the presence of fuses.
 
Megawatt said:
Do y’all have to draw permits and when you are finished get it inspected
Click to expand...
This question probably hasn’t been answered yet as it’s a contentious and complicated subject. In short experienced and competent sparks are expected to test and certify their own installations. Certain domestic work has to be notified to to the local authority.
How much do you have to pay to draw a permit? Presumably that covers the cost of a third party inspection?
 
FatAlan said:
This question probably hasn’t been answered yet as it’s a contentious and complicated subject. In short experienced and competent sparks are expected to test and certify their own installations. Certain domestic work has to be notified to to the local authority.
How much do you have to pay to draw a permit? Presumably that covers the cost of a third party inspection?
Click to expand...
Depending on what you are getting a permit for it cost around $100.00. I worked out of town in another state and they charged by the amp which at that time we was working on a 4000 amp switch gear which I had to pay and it’s was around $ 650.00 US dollars and they would not take nothing but cash. Every state . County, and inspectors are different and have their rules
 
Megawatt said:
Depending on what you are getting a permit for it cost around $100.00. I worked out of town in another state and they charged by the amp which at that time we was working on a 4000 amp switch gear which I had to pay and it’s was around $ 650.00 US dollars and they would not take nothing but cash. Every state . County, and inspectors are different and have their rules
Click to expand...

Yes fatalan I do add that price to the customer
 
Do y’all not have panels with all your overcurrent and short circuit and run your wires the the devices
Click to expand...

Yes, but as I explained in post #16, the FCU is a handy way of locally creating a small circuit from a large one, bearing in mind that our outlet circuits are often protected at 32A in the DB (panel).
 
Megawatt said:
Do y’all not have panels with all your overcurrent and short circuit and run your wires the the devices
Click to expand...
we do. we call them Distribution Boards. domestics are commonly referred to as Consumer Units.
 
Megawatt said:
We use breakers as our overcurrent protection not fuses
Click to expand...

We use whatever is best suited to the application.
Generally MCB's (miniature circuit breakers) for small final circuits and MCCBs (moulded case circuit breakers) or fuses for distribution circuits or large final circuits.
Installing two mcbs in series can have discrimination issues, so generally we don't use mcbs for distribution circuits.

The choice of protective device, whether its fuse or circuit breaker will depend on things such as the type of load, the prospective fault current, discrimination.
 
Now, now Andy78, that's a tad pedantic of you! LOL!
Plus, you ended your sentence with an unnecessary preposition. If we are trying to assist our American friend with the correct terminology for our superior electrical items, we should be careful not to let him think our grammar is inferior...
 
pirate said:
Now, now Andy78, that's a tad pedantic of you! LOL!
Plus, you ended your sentence with an unnecessary preposition. If we are trying to assist our American friend with the correct terminology for our superior electrical items, we should be careful not to let him think our grammar is inferior...
Click to expand...
Capital letter at the start, full stop at the end. Anything more complex than that and you're talking to the wrong guy. :p
 
I had problems in the reverse when ordering parts for USA cars. The one that comes to mind is low voltage is between 50 and 1000 volt AC to earth.

But there are so many, our reduced low voltage is 110 volt between phases, but 55 or 64 volt to earth depending if single or three phase.

I am told you use delta transformers with one winding centre tapped and earthed, so one phase is a much higher voltage to earth and called the hot wire, never seen that in UK.

Also I know Robin tunnel boring machines had an IT 220 volt supply, never seen IT supplies in UK except for shaver outlets. IT = Insulated from terrestrial so TN is terrestrial bonded to neutral. Why terrestrial not ground not a clue.

But work in UK mines and quarries and you will likely feel more at home, we also have some odd voltages 660 volt for example.

Only with out lying farms do we tend to have drop down transformers on a pole, with 230 - 0 - 230 split phase supplies, most places we tend to use 500 kVA or larger to drop down so 400 volt between phases and 230 volt to earth/neutral.
 
one phase is a much higher voltage to earth and called the hot wire, never seen that in UK.
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I don't think we've ever used edge-grounded delta at all. It's a cheap way to rig up 3-phase on systems where the normal service is split-phase with both lines present in most installations. Because we only ever use split-phase in the absence of 3-phase (as our single-phase is 230V not 120V) we wouldn't have anything to gain from high-leg delta. And I think it is technically 'high leg' or 'wild leg' rather than 'hot', because hot just means line.

The T in TN is Terre, it's French.
 
Lucien Nunes said:
I don't think we've ever used edge-grounded delta at all. It's a cheap way to rig up 3-phase on systems where the normal service is split-phase with both lines present in most installations. Because we only ever use split-phase in the absence of 3-phase (as our single-phase is 230V not 120V) we wouldn't have anything to gain from high-leg delta. And I think it is technically 'high leg' or 'wild leg' rather than 'hot', because hot just means line.

The T in TN is Terre, it's French.
Click to expand...
Lucien I personally don’t use Delta 3 phase transformers. And you are right it’s useless to the work I do, the only use for it in my opinion is just 3 phase loads only
 
No Hotleg Delta Transformer set ups in UK.

GFCI = RCD

Hot wire = live UK. Active Aus

Travellers = Strappers UK

Romex or NM = T & E UK, TPS Aus

No Split or Polyphase in UK generally used

Red, Black and Blue phase colours are Brown, Black, Grey UK or Red White and Blue in Aus

Receptical = Double or Single socket UK, GPO Aus

EMT - Conduit

No AWG cable sizing in the UK

Midget - Outlet of shallow depth

60hz - 50Hz UK and Aus
 
KennyKen said:
Hot wire = live UK. Active Aus

No Split or Polyphase in UK generally used
Click to expand...

It's line in the UK, used to be phase. Live is used to describe any conductor which carries current in normal service so both the line and neutral are live.

Polyphase supplies are very common in the UK, but they only get called polyphase in the text books, the rest of us just call them three phase.
 
KennyKen said:
No Hotleg Delta Transformer set ups in UK.

GFCI = RCD

Hot wire = live UK. Active Aus

Travellers = Strappers UK

Romex or NM = T & E UK, TPS Aus

No Split or Polyphase in UK generally used

Red, Black and Blue phase colours are Brown, Black, Grey UK or Red White and Blue in Aus

Receptical = Double or Single socket UK, GPO Aus

EMT - Conduit

No AWG cable sizing in the UK

Midget - Outlet of shallow depth

60hz - 50Hz UK and Aus
Click to expand...
I like the terminology and the way electrical is different in other countries
 
In UK live means all phase wires AND neutral, line means a phase wire, yes I know we say live for phase wire, but should call it line.

There are some things were we don't follow the rule book, in fact it is near impossible, for example line 1 is normally brown, live 2 is normally black and earth is green/yellow, but nearly every 110 volt site supply I have found, line 2 is blue which should only be used for neutral. Also the yellow plugs, which show it is a 110 volt supply, normally are marked L and N rather than L1 and L2 we don't have a neutral in our site supplies.

Rule book says wires buried in a wall need RCD protection, I have never seen the 8 volt supply to a door bell RCD protected. But the rule book unless changed in latest edition does not say under 50 volts RCD protection is not required, sure it is an over sight, but not in BS7671:2008 at least.
 
Oh yes industrial plugs 24 volt purple, also white I think 42 volt and green used for extra low voltage i.e. under 50 volt AC or 75 volt DC.

For 55-0-55 or 63-0-63 (our 110 volt building site supply) yellow plugs (reduced low voltage), and 230 volt blue plugs, and 400 volt red plugs (low voltage).
 
Polyphase is also an US term for Split Phase Ie 2 phases that’s what I was referring to.

I was 15th/16th Edition always referred it as “Live” things change.
 
This is, should be, and can always be an awesome thread if everybody who contributes to it really well. Less bants (with can be misunderstood) and more facts and sharing of info.

It's connecting (pardon the pun) electricians from various countries and it's nice to see some positive (ha) connections between us all in this weird time of so much disconnection globally in community spirit and whatnot.

Let's try and keep this thread a brilliant one.

It's also when the forum first switched to a global domain. So it's something people can be drawn to and contribute to and feel part of the forum even as a newbie. :)

Welcome to all I say. :D
 
The concept of a global electrical forum is baffling. It's nice to chat and knock ideas around, but there are so many detail differences in practice that a thread like this is bound to lead to confusion at times and it's quite hard to offer practical advice. Like the enquiry yesterday from a new poster in the US about disconnecting a cable from a meter socket. We don't have meter sockets in the UK and if we did, we wouldn't be allowed to remove cables from them. Sockets, yes, and meters, yes, but meter sockets? To a UK spark, that thread reads like 'What cheese do I put in my car bicycle?'. It's best for the poster to get local advice from someone who services car bicycles and knows which cheese is compatible with which :)
 
Carl S said:
Two of the Americanisms I can’t get my head around. A motor starter is a “bucket”, and a motor terminal box a “pecker head”?????
Click to expand...

Where have you heard those? As you know I split my time 20/30/50% between the UK/Germany and the USA. Not heard of those expressions before.
 
Carl S said:
Two of the Americanisms I can’t get my head around. A motor starter is a “bucket”, and a motor terminal box a “pecker head”?????
Click to expand...
Hi everyone and yes the OP is local and we can pull meters, and if needed we can take the wires loose on the customer side of the meter and replace if needed. I’ve took the wires on the OP side of the meter or the socket wires hot because the neutral was corroded or not making a good connection ( our neutral is white) and I didn’t have to call the OP to disconnect the power. Yes we call the motor control center which has what we call buckets and yes we call the cover on the motor a peckerhead i don’t know where that slang came from. It’s been called since I’ve been doing electrical work and that was around 1980
 
Megawatt said:
Hi everyone and yes the OP is local and we can pull meters, and if needed we can take the wires loose on the customer side of the meter and replace if needed. I’ve took the wires on the OP side of the meter or the socket wires hot because the neutral was corroded or not making a good connection ( our neutral is white) and I didn’t have to call the OP to disconnect the power. Yes we call the motor control center which has what we call buckets and yes we call the cover on the motor a peckerhead i don’t know where that slang came from. It’s been called since I’ve been doing electrical work and that was around 1980
Click to expand...
I’m am assuming that y’all call the OP as the power company or inspector
 
Megawatt said:
I’m am assuming that y’all call the OP as the power company or inspector
Click to expand...
We call the power company a couple of things. We have the DNOs or district network operators, who own and run the distribution network, transformers etc including the cable into each property and the main fuse(s) for that property.
We also have the energy supplier who own and maintain the meter for each property. That's who the householder pays their bills to.

The fuse and meter are sealed and we, as electricians, are not supposed to break these seals or tamper with this equipment.

Here is a map of the UK showing the DNO companies. The energy supplier is whoever the householder chooses.

www.energynetworks.org

Who’s my network operator?

Your network operator can tell you who your energy supplier is, if you're unsure or don't know.
www.energynetworks.org www.energynetworks.org
 
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