What is the legal definition of an electrician?

[HappyHippyDad]

I have scoured the internet to see if I can find a 'legal' definition of an electrician. I cannot!

I have found this:

What Is A "Qualified Electrician"? | My Local Electrician

which distinguishes between a qualified and non-qualified electrician but a 'non-qualified' electrician still has 'electrician' in the title.

Normal dictionaries cannot be used as they do not go into any detail. The collins dictionary simply states an electrician as:

a person whose occupation is the installation, maintenance, and repair of electrical devices

The Oxford English Dictionary states an electrician is:

a person who installs and maintains electrical equipment

There are a lot of views about who can call themselves an electrician, generally someone who has served an apprenticeship and has the right NVQ's but is there a legal definition?

 

[Plonker 3]

The BS7671 says competent person- A person who posses sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and, where appropriate, injury to him/ herself and others.

To me that reads there is no such thing because one person wouldn't be able to be all of the above for every aspect of electrical work.

We all have our fields which we are comfortable to work in, so we usually just stick to them. See the thread earlier about becoming a panel wirer as a example, someone confident in house bashing but has prospects else where, but uncertain what it involves.

 

[gnuuser]

but is there a legal definition?

probably only in the eyes of a lawyer or judge:13:

 

[snowhead]

No, there cannot be a Legal definition, the title Electrician is too vague.
Same problem with Plumber, Pipe Fitter, Heating engineer, Joiner, Carpenter, Tiler, Bricklayer.

The same problem occours with many trades and occupations.
It's only when you get to Professions do you start to get legal definitions.

 

[Engineer54]

Really, define ....Electrical Engineer, Mechanical Engineer in legal definition terms then??

 

[overskilled]

Legally in some jurisdictions IIRC - To use the title engineer, you are required to have a bachelor of engineering degree at a minimum and frequently other requirements on the top.

 

[timbobelfast]

IMHO it is the paper qualifications that help back up competency. Only way in a court of law that you can back yourself up.

What qualifications make you an electrician? That's a different debate, well in the UK anyway! Too many different routes and short courses.

 

[Engineer54]

Legally in some jurisdictions IIRC - To use the title engineer, you are required to have a bachelor of engineering degree at a minimum and frequently other requirements on the top.

Unfortunately not in the UK

IMHO it is the paper qualifications that help back up competency. Only way in a court of law that you can back yourself up.

What qualifications make you an electrician? That's a different debate, well in the UK anyway! Too many different routes and short courses.

That is about as close as you could come to legally defining an Engineer. But take for example the term Electrical Engineer, there are so many different E/Engineers all working in their own specialised fields. It's inconceivable, that any of them would be able to claim Engineer status over all the specialisations... but all are called Electrical Engineers!!

That goes for many other Engineering professions as well...

 

[guest119]

JIB Grading Definitions - Electrician

 

[telectrix]

quite simple, really. an electrician is a plumber with a brain added.

 

[timbobelfast]

quite simple, really. an electrician is a plumber with a brain added.

Like you thinking Tel, BUT, what is your definition of a plumber? lol (Apart from having wet pants)

Personally I use the JIB grading system myself as a bench mark. Although a lot of other sparks would disagree.

 

[Engineer54]

JIB Grading Definitions - Electrician

Those grading definitions relate to what is or was known as ''Journeyman electrician'' working in the building and construction side of things. Industrial Maintenance Electricians would follow a somewhat different path, and does not come under the JIB's umbrella

 

[guest119]

Electrician, including Provisional Electrician - Scottish Joint Industry Board

 

[timbobelfast]

Those grading definitions relate to what is or was known as ''Journeyman electrician'' working in the building and construction side of things. Industrial Maintenance Electricians would follow a somewhat different path, and does not come under the JIB's umbrella

The JIB card I have has both electrical installation and electrical maintenance on it with the grade of Approved Electrician.

Tho I have the NVQ 3 in both installation and maintenance.

 

[Engineer54]

Think you'll find the meanings of industrial maintenance and electrical maintenance are different. Industrial electricians follow a different C&G's route as well. As far as i know, these types of electricians have never been under the JIB/SJIB's umbrella.

 

[timbobelfast]

Yes, like most rig sparks. Time severed through the shipyards. There is industrial and then heavy industrial and even then the difference here is miles apart.

I don't think there will ever be a golden rule or path the being fully qualified. To many different aspects to consider.

 

[Marvo]

I don't know if 'electrician' was ever a protected title whereas engineer was by engineering councils to some degree.

 

[MDJ]

I thought it was someone who could carry out electrical installation work under supervision to the standard expected by bs 7671, an approved electrician was always someone who could run Jobs, read drawings and supervise up to 6 electricians/mates/apprentices etc. So an electrician need only be able to carry out works under supervision, not run jobs and take responsibility, well that is how it used to be.

 

[Silly Sausage]

quite simple, really. an electrician is a plumber with a brain added.

Or an Electrician is someone who wishes that they had paid more attention at school...then they could have become an Instrument Tech! :tounge_smile::38:

 

[MDJ]

I don't know if 'electrician' was ever a protected title whereas engineer was by engineering councils to some degree.

I hate the word engineer when used by electricians and the word technician, they are both different from electrician, an engineer is a different job and it takes a lot of knowledge to be one of those, as for technician different again, the top grade on the tools.

 

[Guest111]

The BS7671 says competent person- A person who posses sufficient technical knowledge, relevant practical skills and experience for the nature of the electrical work undertaken and is able at all times to prevent danger and, where appropriate, injury to him/ herself and others.

To me that reads there is no such thing because one person wouldn't be able to be all of the above for every aspect of electrical work.

We all have our fields which we are comfortable to work in, so we usually just stick to them. See the thread earlier about becoming a panel wirer as a example, someone confident in house bashing but has prospects else where, but uncertain what it involves.

that's what separates us from the diy brigade,knowing ones limitations

 

[ian.settle1]

Yes, like most rig sparks. Time severed through the shipyards. There is industrial and then heavy industrial and even then the difference here is miles apart.

I don't think there will ever be a golden rule or path the being fully qualified. To many different aspects to consider.

Sounds very painful :behead:

 

[Geordie Spark]

<<< What is the legal definition of an electrician? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Something that's black & crispy hanging from the light fitting??? :troll:

 

[ian.settle1]

<<< What is the legal definition of an electrician? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Something that's black & crispy hanging from the light fitting??? :troll:

Wrong thats someone who thinks they are an electrician

 

[Zebra Stripe]

there is no 'legal' definition, what is the legal definition of a legal definition?

 

[jimmymac]

I'd say if you can't do 3 rewires per week your no a sparky!:53:

 

[7029 dave]

I will say it again, you can have all the qualifications as long as your arm, BUT if you have no practical experience it means, didley squat!!

 

[fuel]

Correct me if im wrong, but any man, woman or dog can get some tools, basic cheap supplies and a 98 trabsit with a magnetic sign saying "Joe Public: Electrician". The Sparksafe scheme is trying to get into practice as far as i know, im with the ETT ( Electrical Training Trust) in NI and the chief exectutive of ETT Derek Thompson seems to be pushing quite a bit for it to come into play, infact, im wearing an ETT hoodie with the logo on it right now:

 

[PEG]

I have a sweat-shirt with "****-star" wrote on the front,but nobody wants to help me make a film.....

 

[timbobelfast]

Correct me if im wrong, but any man, woman or dog can get some tools, basic cheap supplies and a 98 trabsit with a magnetic sign saying "Joe Public: Electrician". The Sparksafe scheme is trying to get into practice as far as i know, im with the ETT ( Electrical Training Trust) in NI and the chief exectutive of ETT Derek Thompson seems to be pushing quite a bit for it to come into play, infact, im wearing an ETT hoodie with the logo on it right now:

Fuel I am aware of this new scheme in NI. It just looks like another 'subscription' scheme that carries no weight. Hardly anyone outside of the electrical contracting industry in NI has ever heard of it!

 

[fuel]

Correct me if im wrong, but any man, woman or dog can get some tools, basic cheap supplies and a 98 trabsit with a magnetic sign saying "Joe Public: Electrician". The Sparksafe scheme is trying to get into practice as far as i know, im with the ETT ( Electrical Training Trust) in NI and the chief exectutive of ETT Derek Thompson seems to be pushing quite a bit for it to come into play, infact, im wearing an ETT hoodie with the logo on it right now:

Fuel I am aware of this new scheme in NI. It just looks like another 'subscription' scheme that carries no weight. Hardly anyone outside of the electrical contracting industry in NI has ever heard of it!

Couldnt agree more, have asked a few and alot havent heard of it... They gave out these hoodies with the hope of their 100+ apprentices would walk about wearing it to work to get the name seen it seams. Their website states:

" SparkSafe is a Licence to Practice system for electrical workers, operated for the benefit of the construction industry and its customers. "

Seems like they are forming a union of some sort to me, this explains quite a bit...

https://www.sparksafeltp.co.uk/CMS/MemberServices/Newsline/NewslineArticleDisplay.aspx?ID=114

 

[timbobelfast]

SparkSafe is a Licence to Practice system for electrical workers, operated for the benefit of the construction industry and its customers. "
[/QUOTE]

Seems like tripe to me. A licence for them to line their own pockets with another un necessary scheme.

John Wayne electrical will still continue trade with a licence or not!!

 

[Engineer54]

operated for the benefit of the construction industry and its customers.

Seems a bit of a contradiction to me does that!! If the Electricians are paying for this licence, then surely the system should be operating for the benefit of the licence holders not everyone else. Any benefit to the construction industry and it's customers, would or should be seen as secondary!!


Anyway, it's No alternative to a government regulated National Register for Qualified Electricians, that's for sure!!

 

[Aindowsimon]

Not guilty !

 

[MDJ]

I suppose you could say an electrician is someone who has paid 4k and gone on a 5 week course, that person took a 60 question A,B,C or D multi choice and got more than 40 questions correct, they then joined Napit and paid their 400 notes and got approval to enter properties in the United Kingdom to undertake electrical installation work and therefore are qualified bonafide electricians :earmuffs:

 

[Engineer54]

I suppose you could say an electrician is someone who has paid 4k and gone on a 5 week course, that person took a 60 question A,B,C or D multi choice and got more than 40 questions correct, they then joined Napit and paid their 400 notes and got approval to enter properties in the United Kingdom to undertake electrical installation work and therefore are qualified bonafide electricians :earmuffs:

And the main reason Why Mr Skelton was invited to speak at a parliamentary meeting!!

 

[Davisonp]

Just came accross this thread,

IET Wiring Matters have a definition. See "https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj8xfXB_LvLAhXIbRQKHXgpCaAQFggjMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Felectrical.------.org%2Fwiring-matters%2F44%2Fcomplete.cfm&usg=AFQjCNH4oFPRc6LUuP76H3juEiB6bkrf-g"

one paragraph says say "For all new entrants to become recognised as an electrician the Level 3 NVQ Diploma in Installing
Electrotechnical systems and equipment (building structures and the environment) is required."

 

[Aurai]

Without being too picky, the question is flawed! Legal is not a useful term to use these days.

We have various forms of law and different lawyers in the legal profession will follow their different paths. Parliament makes laws and calls them Statutes, so leading to a possible Statutory Definition, doubt if there is an Electrician one though. While the regs themselves do not mention tne E word many times at all and then they are non statutory. Could look at the Electricity at Work Regs? Anything else cannot be legal in my book.

 

[Marvo]

You do get legally defined and protected titles such as Doctor (MD), Nurse, Architect (and Engineer in some countries) but Electrician isn't one of them.

 

[Hardwired]

A pervert with a gambling and or drinking problem who doesn't tidy up and is on rock star money according to all other trades.

That might just be the firms i've worked at though.

 

[ex 2 Base]

In days gone by after passing the G&G FTC 57 in Electrical Installations which took 5 years part time, one could obtain an electricians certificate from C&G, which I have.

 

[Pete999]

I have scoured the internet to see if I can find a 'legal' definition of an electrician. I cannot!

I have found this:

What Is A "Qualified Electrician"? | My Local Electrician

which distinguishes between a qualified and non-qualified electrician but a 'non-qualified' electrician still has 'electrician' in the title.

Normal dictionaries cannot be used as they do not go into any detail. The collins dictionary simply states an electrician as:

a person whose occupation is the installation, maintenance, and repair of electrical devices

The Oxford English Dictionary states an electrician is:

a person who installs and maintains electrical equipment

There are a lot of views about who can call themselves an electrician, generally someone who has served an apprenticeship and has the right NVQ's but is there a legal definition?

Someone who has the following attributes:
Educated to a certain standard
Can read and write, and use spellcheck on the PC
Good looking
Good with Maths
Has a thick skin
Good People skills
Plenty of cash (to pay the scams every year)
Can put up with idiots
Good hand eye coordination
Be Ruthless with customers
and finally be an all round nice guy like me

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Someone who has the following attributes:
Educated to a certain standard
Can read and write, and use spellcheck on the PC
Good looking
Good with Maths
Has a thick skin
Good People skills
Plenty of cash (to pay the scams every year)
Can put up with idiots
Good hand eye coordination
Be Ruthless with customers
and finally be an all round nice guy like me

Now that is funny Pete

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Blimey.. I've just noticed I put this one up 4 years ago! Scary!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I have scoured the internet to see if I can find a 'legal' definition of an electrician. I cannot!

I have found this:

What Is A "Qualified Electrician"? | My Local Electrician

which distinguishes between a qualified and non-qualified electrician but a 'non-qualified' electrician still has 'electrician' in the title.

Normal dictionaries cannot be used as they do not go into any detail. The collins dictionary simply states an electrician as:

a person whose occupation is the installation, maintenance, and repair of electrical devices

The Oxford English Dictionary states an electrician is:

a person who installs and maintains electrical equipment

There are a lot of views about who can call themselves an electrician, generally someone who has served an apprenticeship and has the right NVQ's but is there a legal definition?

An Electrician is just someone who does electrical work for pay.

 

[Pete999]

Now that is funny Pete

Glad you enjoyed it

 

[Pete999]

Now that is funny Pete

Glad you enjoyed it

An Electrician is just someone who does electrical work for pay.

Well anyone can do electrical work, and get paid for doing so, albeit no correctly, are they electricians?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Glad you enjoyed it

Well anyone can do electrical work, and get paid for doing so, albeit no correctly, are they electricians?

Yes.

 

[Pete999]

Yes.

Or if they are working in a domestic arena. they must be DIs then, hence no qualifications or experience needed just buy some tools stick electrician on the side of a van and off you go, I know it happens but it doesn't make them electricians.
PS I don't like the disagree button, far to confrontational for my liking, as is the dumb one as well, and explanation of your reasons is a far better answer imo.

 

[PEG]

We really are dredging up the favourites

Anyone can call themselves whatever they like,electrician is as good as any title...crikey,if you can gender re-assign and identify as a pumpkin,what does a van sticker prove?

I saw a bus,with "Kelloggs" on the side of it...but it wasn't full of cornflakes.

The lad up the road,has a young daughter,who wears a top,exclaiming "Daddy's Little Angel". I asked if he had a good Christmas,and he said she hated all her presents,and spent two weeks whining to go to McD's every 3 hours...the word "Angel" was not mentioned

...Move on,lads,this donkey won't go faster,for whippin'