SBS Trade consumer units

[timhoward]

Thought I'd give one of these a go.
Very easy to order and they build the board for you in the order you want. Next day delivery was free.
First impression is that it's very solid and the front comes on and off easily.
(So much space!)

When I fit it, if it doesn't look too rough I'll post some photos!
Obvious drawback is lack of ability to get parts quickly/locally in future.

Anyone tried them and decided against them?

 

[DPG]

I do like the busbar system in those boards. But as you say, my concern would be availability of parts.

How much was that fully populated board out of interest?

 

[pc1966]

It seems like a great idea - but that SPD looks rough.

Having an RCBO feeding it so risk of tripping on any surge and not noticing, and the looped wires just don't look elegant. Had they a bigger SPD that needed no MCB protection and it fitted the busbars directly it would have been the perfect looking unit!

Do you know if the RCBO are neutral-switching ones?

 

[davesparks]

Do you know if the RCBO are neutral-switching ones?

Yes, I used to use these boards because they were the only readily available SPSN RCBO boards at the time.

 

[timhoward]

Do you know if the RCBO are neutral-switching ones

All devices double pole.

Having an RCBO feeding it so risk of tripping on any surge and not noticing, and the looped wires just don't look elegant.

The right hand two devices are actually MCBs branded to look like RCBOs, so it's an MCB feeding the SPD.
I can see why you thought otherwise though.
Yes, the loop wires are a little longer than the Fusebox ones.

 

[timhoward]

How much was that fully populated board out of interest?

£267 inc vat including tails kit and tails gland, free delivery.
(As a brand new customer only 5% discount.)

 

[DPG]

£267 inc vat including tails kit and tails gland, free delivery.
(As a brand new customer only 5% discount.)

Cheers Tim.

 

[timhoward]

I'd also comment that you can pickup the phone to a UK landline and speak to a real knowledgeable person.
Their entire MCB range are currently marked MCB-B40 at the top and then the relevant curve / rating underneath e.g. B32
I wanted reassurance that the devices were 32 amp. Apparently this is going to change in the near future, and the range code will be made less confusing.

 

[pc1966]

I'd also comment that you can pickup the phone to a UK landline and speak to a real knowledgeable person.

That alone is worth a lot!

 

[loz2754]

David Savery has used these. I think he did a video on them. He rates them quite well.

I found it:

 

[mainline]

David Savery has used these. I think he did a video on them. He rates them quite well.

I found it:

David saverys real reason for using them is apparently they will only sell to qualified electricians ? And that the diyers wouldn't be able to get mcbs and the like for them, but I don't know how true that actually is ?

 

[LukeD]

I posted a few years ago about these and the farce of opening an account etc etc . I have yet to buy one .BUT , I was informed over the phone by a lady that a sale would be no problem

 

[timhoward]

David saverys real reason for using them is apparently they will only sell to qualified electricians ? And that the diyers wouldn't be able to get mcbs and the like for them, but I don't know how true that actually is ?

A Napit number was enough to get an account - they did apparently look me up and check as I made a typo the first time.
I don know how/if they verify non-scam victims.

 

[mainline]

A Napit number was enough to get an account - they did apparently look me up and check as I made a typo the first time.
I don know how/if they verify non-scam victims.

I'll think i'll stick will Fusebox for now

 

[mainline]

I'll think i'll stick will Fusebox for now

I wonder if someone will pop up on eBay supplying them to anyone.

 

[timhoward]

I posted a few years ago about these and the farce of opening an account etc etc . I have yet to buy one .BUT , I was informed over the phone by a lady that a sale would be no problem

Interesting! Though I wonder how many rookie sparks (for want of a better expression) would have any interest in buying them anyway. I’m not sure most would expend the effort when screwfix is easier. It’s good to know that they would have sold to you.

 

[sparksfly]

I have installed some SBS compact RCBOs in a old db in 2014 and are still working.

 

[mainline]

I have installed some SBS compact RCBOs in a old db in 2014 and are still working.

Bet it doesn't last as long as a wire one

 

[sparksfly]

Bet it doesn't last as long as a wire one

Well... your right on that one.

 

[Lister1987]

@dseselectric has used them before and quite rates them. I like that twin busbar idea.

 

[loz2754]

@dseselectric has used them before and quite rates them. I like that twin busbar idea.

Post in thread 'SBS Trade consumer units' SBS Trade consumer units - https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/sbs-trade-consumer-units.206033/post-1814592

Is there an echo in here?

 

[mainline]

Post in thread 'SBS Trade consumer units' SBS Trade consumer units - https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/sbs-trade-consumer-units.206033/post-1814592

Is there an echo in here?

Read first, post later comes to mind

 

[timhoward]

So, I said I'd post some pictures if it didn't look too rough. I'm going to post some anyway as @Dave OCD 's reaction could be entertaining.
The before picture:

I couldn't understand why the cables had been brought through the back board so low, and started to carefully excavate upwards only to find some kind of steel RSJ thing sticking out of the wall. THe rear entry cables loop around the end of it and in.
My nice plan to get the CU on the back board was somewhat in tatters.

Devoid of any other ideas I figured I'd move the isolator and do my best to tidy up within the limitations. I added some extra screw holes as the board would have to overhang again.
Anyway, this is what it ended up looking like:

 

[timhoward]

In terms of the board itself...
Very strong. Knockouts come out easily. Knockouts on every side is a plus.
The extra space was most welcome as 3 CPC's needed extending.
Enough room above CPC bar for tester clip to nicely bite.

Negative points from my perspective...
One main earth, 2 bonds and 1 per circuit could have left me a little short on the CPC bar. I don't know whether I'm imagining it but think Fuesbox has more capacity than that.
The screws that hold the DIN rail assembly seem to be self drilling/tapping not machined and after removing it all and putting it back I very easily managed to strip the thread on one of them. So had to drill, tap and use a bigger screw. Another time I wouldn't remove it - I'm just used to easily doing this on Fusebox boards.
Finally, being a bit picky but it's not super-easy to see the breaker ratings when the switches are off.

All in all, I'd use one again.

 

[Dave OCD]

I've seen worse, can't remember where though.

Only kidding Tim !

 

[timhoward]

I've seen worse, can't remember where though.

Only kidding Tim !

BTW isn't it about time you upgraded your profile picture from a dual RCD board?!

And by the way, if anyone guesses what the red and black 6mm circuit was for I'll buy them a virtual beer. (The newer one is the cooker circuit)

 

[Dave OCD]

Good point, haven't thought about that ! I'll guess a very large doorbell.

 

[DPG]

BTW isn't it about time you upgraded your profile picture from a dual RCD board?!

And by the way, if anyone guesses what the red and black 6mm circuit was for I'll buy them a virtual beer. (The newer one is the cooker circuit)

Heat pump

 

[timhoward]

Nope and Nope. This had me and the householder head scratching for a good while.
For context - extended / converted mid-terrace house. Large kitchen and lounge on ground floor. Bathroom and bedroom with en-suite on middle floor. Two bedrooms on top floor.
Only current-using appliance in sight was the cooker.

 

[Dave OCD]

A small sub main to the top floor to a small CU for sockets and lighting ?

 

[SJD]

Distribution circuit to an old under-floor heating board?

 

[timhoward]

A small sub main to the top floor to a small CU for sockets and lighting ?

Distribution circuit to an old under-floor heating board?

It's a relief that you guys are almost quoting the conversation I had with the owner!
I'd eventually written the 6mm off as (probably) an old shower circuit. I left it disconnected at that point.

I later did a walk around with him to find out what didn't work as I'd also got two 2.5 cables disconnected that had been both in a B32 but I had no end-to end readings.

We found three double sockets in lounge not working.
Then a bit later we found a macerator en-suite toilet (which was directly above lounge) not working.

I temporarily connected each half of the non-ring to a B16 and found one cable got one corner of the lounge working, the other cable got the other corner working. Neither cable got the macerator working...

It still didn't dawn on me until I took the FCU apart and it was the 6mm feed, almost certainly the old shower circuit from the next room repurposed. The guy (who was Dutch) found this really funny and said does that mean I can do a 32 amp sh*t then?

 

[mainline]

if anyone guesses what the red and black 6mm circuit was for I'll buy them a virtual beer. (The newer one is the cooker circuit)

You should have said “guesses correctly” as you now owe about 300 virtual beers

 

[mainline]

It's a relief that you guys are almost quoting the conversation I had with the owner!
I'd eventually written the 6mm off as (probably) an old shower circuit. I left it disconnected at that point.

I later did a walk around with him to find out what didn't work as I'd also got two 2.5 cables disconnected that had been both in a B32 but I had no end-to end readings.

We found three double sockets in lounge not working.
Then a bit later we found a macerator en-suite toilet (which was directly above lounge) not working.

I temporarily connected each half of the non-ring to a B16 and found one cable got one corner of the lounge working, the other cable got the other corner working. Neither cable got the macerator working...

It still didn't dawn on me until I took the FCU apart and it was the 6mm feed, almost certainly the old shower circuit from the next room repurposed. The guy (who was Dutch) found this really funny and said does that mean I can do a 32 amp sh*t then?

A 40 dependent on how bad the runs are

 

[nicebutdim]

SBS Trade Sales ceased trading last month. Apparently they will offer support to existing customers from available stock.

No idea what happened, but I do remember expressing concerns on other threads about their business model leading to such an occurrence.

 

[DPG]

SBS Trade Sales ceased trading last month. Apparently they will offer support to existing customers from available stock.

No idea what happened, but I do remember expressing concerns on other threads about their business model leading to such an occurrence.

It's a shame that, but as you say it was always a worry that this might happen at some point.

 

[nicebutdim]

It is a shame to see any small business go under, much less one which attempted to innovate.

 

[mainline]

David Savery was a big advocate for them, liking the fact that the diyer couldn't purchase..

 

[nicebutdim]

David Savery was a big advocate for them, liking the fact that the diyer couldn't purchase..

That was a good selling point, but the problem was they also limited access for trade customers who had to go directly to them and register an account.

While I admired their stance on sales to DIYers, it seemed foolhardy to also make it difficult for trade customers to give their business to you. Most sparks will buy whatever is stocked locally. A smaller number will prepare in advance to ensure they can use a preferred brand. Very few are going to exclusively use a brand that's available from only one source and for which no alternative exists should any item be out of stock.

 

[loz2754]

David Savery put out a video on YouTube about SBS going out of business. In it, he does make some interesting points about (most) other manufacturers effectively discontinuing products by not making them backwards compatible.

 

[nicebutdim]

David Savery put out a video on YouTube about SBS going out of business. In it, he does make some interesting points about (most) other manufacturers effectively discontinuing products by not making them backwards compatible.

Must take a look at that. I have strong opinions about backward compatibility and it's one of the reasons I like Starbreaker, unlike a well known Electrium stablemate. Hager also deserve credit for moving in the same direction. I've placed a bit of faith in Fusebox and (to date) they seem to have a similar ethos where backward compatibility is concerned.

Unfortunately I think the majority of money is spent along the lines of price and local availability, so there's no real incentive for manufacturers to move in this direction.

 

[Simon47]

I don know how/if they verify non-scam victims.

I described my very part time business and sent some photos of previous work - he said OK.

SBS Trade Sales ceased trading last month.

That is indeed disappointing news. I'm now wondering if I should grab some additional RCBOs to cover potential additions at church.

But, they didn't make the stuff. The box fronts are branded (from memory) LVE or something like that. So I do wonder about the scope for alternative supplies ?

 

[nicebutdim]

But, they didn't make the stuff. The box fronts are branded (from memory) LVE or something like that. So I do wonder about the scope for alternative supplies ?

I've read before the claim that SBS circuit protection was made by Live, but don't know whether there's any truth in the rumour. Do live offer a dual busbar option?

 

[Simon47]

Well, when I did the church electrics, the bixes were Live branded, as was the 4pole switch (for c/o to gen input) he fitted for me in place of the 2pole main switch. The style of the Live branded switch was identical to the normal main switch.
But I've looked on their site Live - https://www.liveelectrical.co.uk/ and can't see them.
So it's quite possible he's been using Live boxes but "someone elses" internals.

Certainly going to be an issue if we can't find an alternative. At least the boxes are spacious so could fit the much longer AFDD+RCBO devices Arc Fault Detection Device With RCBO - https://www.liveelectrical.co.uk/Catalogue/Arc-Fault-Detection-Device-With-RCBO_ID163.html. pity it'll mean having to take out the dual busbar and scrap existing devices to reolace it with a single bus bar.

 

[Timbo]

I've read before the claim that SBS circuit protection was made by Live, but don't know whether there's any truth in the rumour. Do live offer a dual busbar option?

Mini RCBO Double Pole

Mini RCBO Double Pole

www.liveelectrical.co.uk

 

[nicebutdim]

Mini RCBO Double Pole

Mini RCBO Double Pole

www.liveelectrical.co.uk

I think you or someone else linked to these RCBOs before, but no one in the UK appears to stock them.

Mad to think that hundreds of BG dual RCD boards from Screwfix will be fitted up and down the UK this week, yet not a single Live dual busbar board as virtually no one knows of their existence and absolutely no one can buy one. Pretty much sums up the state of the industry.

 

[Simon47]

That's the ones. I'll admit it's hard browsing a lot of sites on a tiny mobile phone screen like I was earlier
One of the things SBS did was make his own bus bars to requirements. Live don't have an equivalent to connect a number of the mini RCBOs (L&N within one module space) to the main switch (L&N in separate module spaces), and the L&N bus bar they do have is only 63A rating. That's going to be a bit of a problem if we could find a supplier of the RCBOs.
But that's moot sooner or later, even if AFDD mandatory for everything is an April's Fool that some of us fell for, it's going to be along sooner or later - then we'll be back to neutral fly leads and massive devices.

 

[nicebutdim]

That's the ones. I'll admit it's hard browsing a lot of site on a tiny mobile phone screen like I was earlier

They aren't easy to find and more difficult again is finding an option to construct a suitable dual busbar enclosure. Given the lack of availability, or even information online, it's possible these are included in Live's online catalogue solely due to manufacture for SBS.

 

[Simon47]

I really doubt that SBS would buy enough for it to be cost effective to make a version just for them.

 

[nicebutdim]

I really doubt that SBS would buy enough for it to be cost effective to make a version just for them.

That was my initial thought, but it seems strange that the Live version doesn't appear to be held in stock anywhere worldwide.