SBS Trade consumer units

[SJD]

Distribution circuit to an old under-floor heating board?

 

[timhoward]

A small sub main to the top floor to a small CU for sockets and lighting ?

Distribution circuit to an old under-floor heating board?

It's a relief that you guys are almost quoting the conversation I had with the owner!
I'd eventually written the 6mm off as (probably) an old shower circuit. I left it disconnected at that point.

I later did a walk around with him to find out what didn't work as I'd also got two 2.5 cables disconnected that had been both in a B32 but I had no end-to end readings.

We found three double sockets in lounge not working.
Then a bit later we found a macerator en-suite toilet (which was directly above lounge) not working.

I temporarily connected each half of the non-ring to a B16 and found one cable got one corner of the lounge working, the other cable got the other corner working. Neither cable got the macerator working...

It still didn't dawn on me until I took the FCU apart and it was the 6mm feed, almost certainly the old shower circuit from the next room repurposed. The guy (who was Dutch) found this really funny and said does that mean I can do a 32 amp sh*t then?

 

[mainline]

if anyone guesses what the red and black 6mm circuit was for I'll buy them a virtual beer. (The newer one is the cooker circuit)

You should have said “guesses correctly” as you now owe about 300 virtual beers

 

[mainline]

It's a relief that you guys are almost quoting the conversation I had with the owner!
I'd eventually written the 6mm off as (probably) an old shower circuit. I left it disconnected at that point.

I later did a walk around with him to find out what didn't work as I'd also got two 2.5 cables disconnected that had been both in a B32 but I had no end-to end readings.

We found three double sockets in lounge not working.
Then a bit later we found a macerator en-suite toilet (which was directly above lounge) not working.

I temporarily connected each half of the non-ring to a B16 and found one cable got one corner of the lounge working, the other cable got the other corner working. Neither cable got the macerator working...

It still didn't dawn on me until I took the FCU apart and it was the 6mm feed, almost certainly the old shower circuit from the next room repurposed. The guy (who was Dutch) found this really funny and said does that mean I can do a 32 amp sh*t then?

A 40 dependent on how bad the runs are

 

[nicebutdim]

SBS Trade Sales ceased trading last month. Apparently they will offer support to existing customers from available stock.

No idea what happened, but I do remember expressing concerns on other threads about their business model leading to such an occurrence.

 

[DPG]

SBS Trade Sales ceased trading last month. Apparently they will offer support to existing customers from available stock.

No idea what happened, but I do remember expressing concerns on other threads about their business model leading to such an occurrence.

It's a shame that, but as you say it was always a worry that this might happen at some point.

 

[nicebutdim]

It is a shame to see any small business go under, much less one which attempted to innovate.

 

[mainline]

David Savery was a big advocate for them, liking the fact that the diyer couldn't purchase..

 

[nicebutdim]

David Savery was a big advocate for them, liking the fact that the diyer couldn't purchase..

That was a good selling point, but the problem was they also limited access for trade customers who had to go directly to them and register an account.

While I admired their stance on sales to DIYers, it seemed foolhardy to also make it difficult for trade customers to give their business to you. Most sparks will buy whatever is stocked locally. A smaller number will prepare in advance to ensure they can use a preferred brand. Very few are going to exclusively use a brand that's available from only one source and for which no alternative exists should any item be out of stock.

 

[loz2754]

David Savery put out a video on YouTube about SBS going out of business. In it, he does make some interesting points about (most) other manufacturers effectively discontinuing products by not making them backwards compatible.

 

[nicebutdim]

David Savery put out a video on YouTube about SBS going out of business. In it, he does make some interesting points about (most) other manufacturers effectively discontinuing products by not making them backwards compatible.

Must take a look at that. I have strong opinions about backward compatibility and it's one of the reasons I like Starbreaker, unlike a well known Electrium stablemate. Hager also deserve credit for moving in the same direction. I've placed a bit of faith in Fusebox and (to date) they seem to have a similar ethos where backward compatibility is concerned.

Unfortunately I think the majority of money is spent along the lines of price and local availability, so there's no real incentive for manufacturers to move in this direction.

 

[Simon47]

I don know how/if they verify non-scam victims.

I described my very part time business and sent some photos of previous work - he said OK.

SBS Trade Sales ceased trading last month.

That is indeed disappointing news. I'm now wondering if I should grab some additional RCBOs to cover potential additions at church.

But, they didn't make the stuff. The box fronts are branded (from memory) LVE or something like that. So I do wonder about the scope for alternative supplies ?

 

[nicebutdim]

But, they didn't make the stuff. The box fronts are branded (from memory) LVE or something like that. So I do wonder about the scope for alternative supplies ?

I've read before the claim that SBS circuit protection was made by Live, but don't know whether there's any truth in the rumour. Do live offer a dual busbar option?

 

[Simon47]

Well, when I did the church electrics, the bixes were Live branded, as was the 4pole switch (for c/o to gen input) he fitted for me in place of the 2pole main switch. The style of the Live branded switch was identical to the normal main switch.
But I've looked on their site Live - https://www.liveelectrical.co.uk/ and can't see them.
So it's quite possible he's been using Live boxes but "someone elses" internals.

Certainly going to be an issue if we can't find an alternative. At least the boxes are spacious so could fit the much longer AFDD+RCBO devices Arc Fault Detection Device With RCBO - https://www.liveelectrical.co.uk/Catalogue/Arc-Fault-Detection-Device-With-RCBO_ID163.html. pity it'll mean having to take out the dual busbar and scrap existing devices to reolace it with a single bus bar.

 

[Timbo]

I've read before the claim that SBS circuit protection was made by Live, but don't know whether there's any truth in the rumour. Do live offer a dual busbar option?

Mini RCBO Double Pole

Mini RCBO Double Pole

www.liveelectrical.co.uk

 

[nicebutdim]

Mini RCBO Double Pole

Mini RCBO Double Pole

www.liveelectrical.co.uk

I think you or someone else linked to these RCBOs before, but no one in the UK appears to stock them.

Mad to think that hundreds of BG dual RCD boards from Screwfix will be fitted up and down the UK this week, yet not a single Live dual busbar board as virtually no one knows of their existence and absolutely no one can buy one. Pretty much sums up the state of the industry.

 

[Simon47]

That's the ones. I'll admit it's hard browsing a lot of sites on a tiny mobile phone screen like I was earlier
One of the things SBS did was make his own bus bars to requirements. Live don't have an equivalent to connect a number of the mini RCBOs (L&N within one module space) to the main switch (L&N in separate module spaces), and the L&N bus bar they do have is only 63A rating. That's going to be a bit of a problem if we could find a supplier of the RCBOs.
But that's moot sooner or later, even if AFDD mandatory for everything is an April's Fool that some of us fell for, it's going to be along sooner or later - then we'll be back to neutral fly leads and massive devices.

 

[nicebutdim]

That's the ones. I'll admit it's hard browsing a lot of site on a tiny mobile phone screen like I was earlier

They aren't easy to find and more difficult again is finding an option to construct a suitable dual busbar enclosure. Given the lack of availability, or even information online, it's possible these are included in Live's online catalogue solely due to manufacture for SBS.

 

[Simon47]

I really doubt that SBS would buy enough for it to be cost effective to make a version just for them.

 

[nicebutdim]

I really doubt that SBS would buy enough for it to be cost effective to make a version just for them.

That was my initial thought, but it seems strange that the Live version doesn't appear to be held in stock anywhere worldwide.

 

[mainline]

That was my initial thought, but it seems strange that the Live version doesn't appear to be held in stock anywhere worldwide.

David Savery bought them all up.

 

[LukeD]

Shame.... but how could they eve compete with the like of ~Fusebox etc ?

 

[DPG]

Shame.... but how could they eve compete with the like of ~Fusebox etc ?

But to be fair, who'd have thought Fusebox would do as well as they did when they first started?

 

[nicebutdim]

But to be fair, who'd have thought Fusebox would do as well as they did when they first started?

Indeed, but they gave themselves every chance with aggressive marketing, competitive pricing and concerted efforts to get their product into wholesalers.

 

[pc1966]

I really doubt that SBS would buy enough for it to be cost effective to make a version just for them.

A lot of the EU mandated DP MCBs and RCBOs so I suspect that is the primary market for dual busbars.

But they should have become the norm decades ago so RCBO were all neat and compact, not the spaghetti junction in many CU. Even if MCB were still SP in the UK they could have had just a pass-through for N and still used a common busbar as appears to be the SBS case.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Legrand make various dual bus bars either staggered or straight at various pitch's, you can find them on the RS web site.

 

[nicebutdim]

Getting back to the point in hand; Live have a range of RCBOs in their catalogue which are intended for use with dual busbars, but no sign of a dual busbar for use in any of their enclosures and there is no availability of these RCBOs worldwide. This all seems rather odd.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Schneider also manufacture the dual bus bars: A9XPH212 | Schneider Electric Acti 9 2 Phase Busbar, 415V ac, 18mm Pitch | RS - https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/busbars/7762720 some will baulk at the price, but don't forget it's two bus bars.

 

[nicebutdim]

I don't see that pointing out devices from other manufacturers is going to be of any future help of owners of SBS boards.

It has been claimed that SBS devices were manufactured by Live so, while we're digging up information, anything on that front may be of use.

 

[timhoward]

Schneider also manufacture the dual bus bars: A9XPH212 | Schneider Electric Acti 9 2 Phase Busbar, 415V ac, 18mm Pitch | RS - https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/busbars/7762720 some will baulk at the price, but don't forget it's two bus bars.

On the RS ones the L and N spacing remains 1 module apart along it's length so it wouldn't work with the devices we are talking about.
Most of us wouldn't want to be reckless with mixing manufacturers gear inside a consumer unit too.
We really need something made by SBS or in the same supply tree.